a href title - how to hide universal attributes?

[Sebastian Eichinger]

Hello!

At first: I'm sorry, my english must be horrible - but i'll try my very
best.

Then: A kind of problem i'm not able to fix.

What matters:
I want to hide (or deactivate) the "standard-tooltip" shown in browsers
when hovering a link (or image)

Background:
I'm creating a link-section on my website. Well, i want to. And i
managed to show some "tooltips" with informations to each link, on
mouseover a kind of "popup" or "tooltip" is shown which contains some
information-text. This is all javascript-based, i don't know much about
this, but there are many good tutorials.

My problem:
When having the mouse over a link, there is not only shown the
self-created "info-field" - there is the default-link-tooltip, too.
The popup-field, which contains the url, or - if added - the text
entered in the "title"-attribut at the html-link-tag.

Because of i want to use small images _and_ text, i have this problem at
my pictures there, too. To write proper html i used the "alt"-attribut
on images, well, and now there is shown this text as a popup, too.

(I'm not good in explaining problems in english, you see. )


Imagine this:

You're browsing a website, containing lots of image- and textlinks. When
you're "hovering" a link, a customized popup is shown with some kind of
information-text.
And ~ one second later there's shown another popup _in front of_ the
info-one, a small thing just showing the url.

Let me say this: i hate this kind of "uncontrolled" function. I was
browsing for informations and help for _hours_ now, i couldn't find
anything.

I really hope to find someone who could help me. And, before i forget:
I don't want to have any "just by the way" - solution, working if you
add pages of code to every single one link. This should become a
link-site, easy to config. So i'm looking forward to fix this with some
kind of "global settings". Working on the most popular browsers, which
actually _are_ containing IE

One thought at last: While IE constantly shows these tooltips, firefox
seems to have trouble with them. sometimes they're shown, sometimes not.
Seems to be a little bug in 1.5.0.3, or something.

So, lots of words, i hope someone understands what i mean, i hope
someone is willing - and able - to help me.

Every link, every tip, every info welcome!

Tank you very much for reading and taking your time,

Greets,

Seb

 

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

One thought at last: While IE constantly shows these tooltips, firefox
seems to have trouble with them. sometimes they're shown, sometimes
not. Seems to be a little bug in 1.5.0.3, or something.

It is IE that is wrong, for displaying the alt text as a tooltip.
Firefox correctly displays the title text, if present, but not the alt
text. There is no bug in Firefox.

 

[Mark Parnell]

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Sebastian Eichinger

When having the mouse over a link, there is not only shown the
self-created "info-field" - there is the default-link-tooltip, too.
The popup-field, which contains the url,

Opera is the only common browser I know of that shows the address as a
tooltip.

or - if added - the text
entered in the "title"-attribut at the html-link-tag.

That's easy to fix - don't add a title attribute. ;-)

Because of i want to use small images _and_ text, i have this problem at
my pictures there, too. To write proper html i used the "alt"-attribut
on images, well, and now there is shown this text as a popup, too.

Only in IE - it *is* a naughty little thing. It can be brought into line
by adding a blank title attribute (title="").

One thought at last: While IE constantly shows these tooltips, firefox
seems to have trouble with them. sometimes they're shown, sometimes not.
Seems to be a little bug in 1.5.0.3, or something.

As above, IE incorrectly displays the alt text as a tooltip (it is
supposed to be an *alternative* to the image), but a blank title
attribute corrects this behaviour.

 

[Jukka K. Korpela]

At first: I'm sorry, my english must be horrible - but i'll try my
very best.

Your English is just fine. What's wrong is that you didn't tell the URL of
your page.

I want to hide (or deactivate) the "standard-tooltip" shown in
browsers when hovering a link (or image)

The normal answer is: Stop wanting that.

I'm creating a link-section on my website. Well, i want to. And i
managed to show some "tooltips" with informations to each link, on
mouseover a kind of "popup" or "tooltip" is shown which contains some
information-text. This is all javascript-based, i don't know much
about this, but there are many good tutorials.

Stop using JavaScript at least until you understand it.

When having the mouse over a link, there is not only shown the
self-created "info-field" - there is the default-link-tooltip, too.

If you told the URL, we could see how you create the problem, and then some
solutions could be suggested. The odds are, however, that you should simply
remove all that fancy JavaScript stuff. This would also make you concentrate
on the real thing, namely selecting link texts so that they are
self-explanatory or at least understandable when read in the context of
normal content on the page,

(I'm not good in explaining problems in english, you see. )

URLs would help _so_ much.

 

[Sebastian Eichinger]

It is IE that is wrong, for displaying the alt text as a tooltip.
Firefox correctly displays the title text, if present, but not the alt
text. There is no bug in Firefox.

Yes, you're right - my fault, i'm sorry.

Well, before i wrote here i was testing and trying for a really long
time to get this thing done - maybe too long...

Thank you for strengthen my belief in firefox!

 

[Frank Olieu]

_Sebastian Eichinger_ skrev | wrote | écrivit (29-05-2006 12:51):

Thank you for strengthen my belief in firefox!

Use the Fox, Luke!

 

[Toby Inkster]

It is IE that is wrong, for displaying the alt text as a tooltip.
Firefox correctly displays the title text, if present, but not the alt
text. There is no bug in Firefox.

There are plenty, but this is not one of them. ;-)

 

[Sebastian Eichinger]

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Sebastian Eichinger
<[email protected]> declared in alt.html:

What the...?
I can't get this. Should i be... just laughing now, or something?

Opera is the only common browser I know of that shows the address as a
tooltip.

Well, let me tell you another one: IE.
If no 'title' is added IE does the same.

That's easy to fix - don't add a title attribute. ;-)

Hehe - yes, maybe that helps
But see above - some browsers will show the url, then. As a tooltip.

Only in IE - it *is* a naughty little thing. It can be brought into line
by adding a blank title attribute (title="").

You're my hero! I'm so stupid. i searched and searched, trying
everything - but not this. Oh my god. Well, at least in FF and IE this
helps - for images _and_ for links.

Thank you very, very, very much!

Seb

 

[Sebastian Eichinger]

Your English is just fine. What's wrong is that you didn't tell the URL
of your page.

Oh sh... yeah, i had this feeling to have forgotten something important.
Well, the "problem" is solved now by simple using title="", but here is
the page i meant:

http://blog.plastick.org/pages/klick.html

The normal answer is: Stop wanting that.

Yes. No. Let me try to explain: I want to add more than just a few
'title'-description words to each link. And, because i like such things:
i wanted to customize the tooltips. So what to do? My way of thinking
was: make your own tooltips > hide the normal ones.

But any thoughts or ideas are welcome!

Stop using JavaScript at least until you understand it.

Why? What else then? Do i have to learn Javascript befor i'm allowed to
create this thing? Should i buy "javascript for dummies", or something?
Would you feel better, then?

At first i made some css-based "popup" when hovering. Simple and
effective - but then i had to realize that this method is not supported
in IE (and maybe many other browsers). The dozend walk-throughs to get
this function running on IE won't help. Most of them was like "i
actually don't know what i was doing, but i just added color:#000 and
everything works, yeah, even in IE!". One was like "Here, this method
works on _every_ version of the IE!". Well, doesn't on mine. So i
stopped typing css and looked for alternatives.

Yes, i know - javascript isn't a method which will work for all. But
what to do? If you like to discuss about functionality on _all_
browsers, to _all_ users worldwide - i'm the wrong guy to talk to.

After handling some arguments, sooner or later we will end like "each
website has to be in plain text", so that it's even acessible in
textbrowsers from 1973. But that doesn't work if you want to create
something good-looking. Blingbling'n'stuff

I also created an - as i think - pretty css for my blog. Shouldn't i
have done, because of there is a "greasemonkey" out there?

I just don't understand what you mean, why i shouldn't use.
Im not using each javascript-line i can find on the web, of course. But
there are really good tutorials out there, and well - now i understand
some expressions, just because of using this code-snippet. Couldn't be
this wrong, i guess.

Oh - sorry for my excessive writing!


Greets, have a nice day!

Seb

 

[Jukka K. Korpela]

Oh sh... yeah, i had this feeling to have forgotten something
important. Well, the "problem" is solved now by simple using
title="", but here is the page i meant:

http://blog.plastick.org/pages/klick.html

You didn't solve the problem - you have just removed the small part of the
problem that bothered you. By the way, my browser (IE 7 beta) signals
JavaScript errors on the page. Haven't you tested the page with script error
reporting switched on?

Yes. No.

Yes. It's the correct answer as usual.

Let me try to explain: I want to add more than just a few
'title'-description words to each link.

Stop wanting that. If your link needs a long description, change the link or
add explanatory words into the content that everyone will see (or hear or
whatever).

Your page is a striking example of the problems people create when they try
to add "mouseover explanations" to things. Your special presentation style
uses horrendously small font with very poor contrast between background and
color. It's probably almost the worst you can do and still preserve the
illusion that people can read it. (I wonder if you can even yourself read
it, or whether you just think so because you remember what you have
written.)

The real problem that you should solve is that your link texts are cryptic,
apparently in an attempt to make them look artistic and cool and enigmatic.
But they are simply a mess, written in Europanto style (an absurd mixture of
European language).

If you can produce some visual art, do so, but don't play with links. People
who build an art gallery are not supposed to make the entrance and the
doorways and the signs so cryptic that visitors don't know whether a door
leads to a men's room, a ladies' room, a room with paintings, or to the
backyard.

And, because i like such
things: i wanted to customize the tooltips.

Stop doing that in HTML authoring, unless you author for yourself only.
Customize your own browsing experience if you like.

Why? What else then?

Start from simple and logical HTML.

Do i have to learn Javascript befor i'm allowed
to create this thing?

Yes. (Well, that's how things _should_ be, at least.)

After handling some arguments, sooner or later we will end like "each
website has to be in plain text",

Actually, for quite a many websites, it would be great improvement if they
were turned into plain text. But your strawman arguments are boring and
surely don't help you (or your visitors).

 

[Neredbojias]

To further the education of mankind, Toby Inkster <usenet200605
@tobyinkster.co.uk> vouchsafed:

There are plenty, but this is not one of them. ;-)

Yup. I doubt if there's a browser available without at least 1,000 bugs,
and that includes Firefox.

Somewhere on the mozilla site or a related blog someone mentioned something
like "...only around 40 bugs left." Uh huh, sure...

 

[dorayme]

http://blog.plastick.org/pages/klick.html

But any thoughts or ideas are welcome!

First thought: the design breaks at just a few clicks of the
enlarge text command. Your text overflows their containers.
Especially the calendar...

What does all that javascript in your code actually do that is
needed? As Mr Korpela has said, and I lend my considerable
authority and reputation to second it, forget about javascript
for the moment. Concentrate your efforts to make the site easy to
use by people with all sorts of screens and eyesights.

 

[Sebastian Eichinger]

First thought: the design breaks at just a few clicks of the
enlarge text command. Your text overflows their containers.
Especially the calendar...

Uh, thank you! As you can see i'm just playing around a little, and i
never thought about this.

But - how to get the larger-text-handling proper done?
What can be done to avoid the messy content? As you see this blogware
uses tables and divs which i used to create this "boxes" - is it
possible to do this in a "dynamic" way, so that the layout will "rise"
with the text?

(Hope someone understands what i mean...)

Concentrate your efforts to make the site easy to
use by people with all sorts of screens and eyesights.

Yes, i understand what you mean. But "easy to use" and "my thoughts" are
sometimes total different.

See, this is more a "private thing" than something public. I never
learnt such things by visiting a seminar or reading a book or something
- i'm just doing and watching, and by times i have some ideas what can
be done next. In this moments - excuse - i dont care about the rest of
the world, because there will always be a blind person browsing the web
unable to read anything on this site because i forgot to put some
audio-streams of the content on it.

So, what i want to reach is a good 'middleway' (does this expression
exist in english?) between a nice looking website (as i think, of
course) with functions i want to have on it and accessibility with
usual-used software.

but thank you very much for your thoughts about it!

And, i really hope i'll learn how to handle different font-sizes, this
behaviour of the site really annoyes me...

Greets,

Seb

 

[Sebastian Eichinger]

You didn't solve the problem - you have just removed the small part of
the problem that bothered you. By the way, my browser (IE 7 beta)
signals JavaScript errors on the page. Haven't you tested the page with
script error reporting switched on?

So, lets remember: my problem were the tooltips. Now i found a method to
avoid them. In my way of thinking this means: i solved it

No, serious - do you have any other idea? Each one is welcome!

So, let's explain something: I'm no web-developer. I never learnt html
or css by visiting a seminar or reading a book. I'm just doing and
watching, then cleaning some errors, playing around a little, and
watching again. So: no - i never tested anything with "script error
reporting". How should i when i barely understand what you're talking
about? =)

So, what matters? Is it just the IE (as usual... ) or are there
important errors i should have a look at? Then - how? Forgive me, but i
don't want to install the IE7. Not as a beta, and not as a final.
Because i just didn't need it.

I'm sure there is a way to check the errors without, can you (or anybody
else) help me to get this fixed?

Your page is a striking example of the problems people create when they
try to add "mouseover explanations" to things. Your special presentation
style uses horrendously small font with very poor contrast between
background and color. It's probably almost the worst you can do and
still preserve the illusion that people can read it. (I wonder if you
can even yourself read it, or whether you just think so because you
remember what you have written.)

No reason to get angry - that's how this "sounds"...

And yes - my eyes sure aren't the best, but i can read this. Without any
problems.

I must say that you can be right - while i "tested" the page on
differend screens and resolutions from 1024x768 to 1600x1200, i didn't
since i made this popup-thing. I just hadn't the time to do, so far i
can say only this: on 1024x768 it's readable very good.

About the colors: the background is kind of "bright" and the text
someting like "very dark" - what more contrast do you want?

The real problem that you should solve is that your link texts are
cryptic, apparently in an attempt to make them look artistic and cool
and enigmatic. But they are simply a mess, written in Europanto style
(an absurd mixture of European language).

Of course it would be a solution to make language-portals. Strict-german
and strict-english, maybe.

But i guess this sould be my problem.

Be sure: everyone who is supposed to visit this more privat than public
page actually _can_ read and understand this.

If you can produce some visual art, do so, but don't play with links.
People who build an art gallery are not supposed to make the entrance
and the doorways and the signs so cryptic that visitors don't know
whether a door leads to a men's room, a ladies' room, a room with
paintings, or to the backyard.

.... So you must be a programmer, or serious-minded webdeveloper, or
something like this. Are you?

To pickup your example: What is wrong about a door completely designed
by an artist, not even looking like a normal door, when it has the - for
most people readable - designed text "men's room" on it?

Must be a horror to you, but kind of something absolutely fascinating to
me

Stop doing that in HTML authoring, unless you author for yourself only.
Customize your own browsing experience if you like.

Start from simple and logical HTML.

Yes. (Well, that's how things _should_ be, at least.)

Those suggestions doesn't make any sense to me.

In case of: "Huh! How can you say that! Die!"

Why there are thousands of methods to customize web-content, when - as
you say - it's "not allowed" to use them?

Guess this is the different thinking. The difference between "Save the
web-standards! Only use web-secure colors!" and "Oh, what does this code
do..?"

Actually, for quite a many websites, it would be great improvement if
they were turned into plain text.

.... are you kidding me? Have a look at your calendar, it's 2006! I would
cancel the contract with my ISP if most websites only are written in
plain text. For sure i'm not sorry about having an interest for some
well-looking content-things, even if they will not work on lynx (or
similar).

You're shocking me. I'm really happy this moment that not each
"webmaster" is thinking like you...

But your strawman arguments are boring...

Could be. Could not be. Who knows, and - who cares?

As i told you, im no web-developer. To me, creating something what
pleases my mind is not a very easy thing. And it's much harder, well,
sometimes nearly impossible, if i'd be forced to use only strict html or
css, just the "secure tags" which will work on each browser. To me it
seems like creating something "artful" working on each (_each_!) browser
is nearly impossible.

But that depends on what you'r thinking of, when you're thinking about
something "artful", something "beautiful" - and for me, this would
include the popup-tooltips we were usually talking about.

Hey, because i forgot until now: don't care about the "cryptic linktext"
- i'll show the visitor (if there is one...) the original url. in the
tooltip. Beneath the text i added there. If you like that or not

So, back to this script-error... That's not nice, if using js, i guess
at least it should work correct.

Have nice days, and even if we are not totally agreeing with each other
- thank you very much for your thoughts and your time for reading and
answering!

Greets,

Seb

 

[Neredbojias]

To further the education of mankind, Sebastian Eichinger

To pickup your example: What is wrong about a door completely designed
by an artist, not even looking like a normal door, when it has the -
for most people readable - designed text "men's room" on it?

Imagine what would happen if even a few people mistook it for a urinal.

 

[Sebastian Eichinger]

It's probably almost the worst you can do and
still preserve the illusion that people can read it. (I wonder if you
can even yourself read it, or whether you just think so because you
remember what you have written.)

Oh. Now i know what could have been annoying you. Because of i'm using
FF, i didn't recognize the error, only happening in IE. The text- and
the background-color were set allright, i "just" messed up the opacity
by forgetting a zero - this tooltip-thing must habe been barely visible
when using 9 instead of 90%...

Yes - that would have been no good idea to leave it this way, i wonder
how you could see the tooltip with this values at all...

So, i'm still hoping to get some help about this error-reporting, maybe
someone has a useful link for me?

Nice days,

Seb

 

[Sebastian Eichinger]

To further the education of mankind, Sebastian Eichinger


Imagine what would happen if even a few people mistook it for a urinal.

I guess this would be a bigger problem than some "cryptic" links =)