J
Jeff Rush
(inspired by a thread on the psf-members list about Python certification)
Those who know me know I am no fan of the programmer certification industry
and I agree that your typical certificate arrangement, e.g. to show HR to get
that box checked in your candidate file, so a company can skip responsibility
in vetting a candidate, is un-Pythonic. However, I do think we need a good
answer to the engineering manager or team leader who asks, "how do I know this
person knows Python?", and to the candidate who thinks, "I believe I'm good at
Python but am I as good as I think?".
The first case primarily cares about the reputation of the testing facility
within the industry, so that if they choose wrong, they are absolved of blame.
The latter two are often honestly looking for some guidance on bringing good
people in-house or to step-up their programming skills.
As Python use spreads, it becomes more important for the community to provide
benchmarks for measuring skill levels, to avoid Python being relegated to the,
respectfully, lightweight programmer category e.g. PHP or perhaps Ruby on
Rails (not Ruby the language).
Prior to PyCon I'd been thinking about some kind of campaign, service or
documents, that I call "So you think you know Python...". My initial idea was
for use by Python programmers, who are honest with themselves, to have a way
to measure their knowledge. We all run into or are programmers who think they
are hot-stuff, especially those of us who work solo as many in our community
do, but when put side-by-side against others, fall a bit short. PyCon can
have that effect, with so many smart people in a small area. ;-) But the
objective isn't to denegrate these programmers but to provide a measuring
stick, along with an educational roadmap, so they can make wise choices.
The rapid growth in use of Python is going to lead to a shortage in Python
programmers, unless we manage the supply side as well. The manager wanting to
find and hire good Python programmers is not an adversary seeking to use
certificates to commoditize our community, but an ally in helping us get
industry respect and career opportunities using our favorite language. We
need to behind what he asks for to see what he needs.
I've been carefully watching Crunchy, about which a talk was given at PyCon,
for writing tutorials that, with its "doctests" feature, could be used to
propose tests that pass and require a candidate to write an acceptable
program. This week I was prototyping an "rst2crunchy" tool, that let's you
write Crunchy scripts in reStructured Text, rather than HTML. Crunchy needs
more features, such as a user login facility and measurement facilities to
store test submissions for review by experienced Python programmers after they
pass. From what I hear on the edu-sig list, André Roberge and Johannes
Woolard are tackling these but could use more help. Johannes in particular
was a student for Google's Summer of Code 2006 and I believe is looking for
sponsorship for 2007.
But perhaps Crunchy is not the ready answer in this case, so I'm looking for
suggestions.
With regard to how a manager can know a person is good at Python, besides
looking at their portfolio of work, we could stake out conceptual areas of the
language or libraries about which a programmer should be conversant. This
might be a document, with example questions but carefully focused on what lies
behind those questions, so an interviewer can come up with his own questions
and avoid rote memorization. This conceptual map could also eventually form
the basis of advanced-placement in schools that goes beyond those terrible
Visual BASIC test questions. And for the Python programmer who wonders if his
knowledge is broad enough and wants to improve him or herself, the conceptual
map could have links/recommendations to training materials on specific topics.
Join me on the advocacy list and let's discuss this further.
You can join at:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/advocacy
Jeff Rush
Python Advocacy Coordinator
Those who know me know I am no fan of the programmer certification industry
and I agree that your typical certificate arrangement, e.g. to show HR to get
that box checked in your candidate file, so a company can skip responsibility
in vetting a candidate, is un-Pythonic. However, I do think we need a good
answer to the engineering manager or team leader who asks, "how do I know this
person knows Python?", and to the candidate who thinks, "I believe I'm good at
Python but am I as good as I think?".
The first case primarily cares about the reputation of the testing facility
within the industry, so that if they choose wrong, they are absolved of blame.
The latter two are often honestly looking for some guidance on bringing good
people in-house or to step-up their programming skills.
As Python use spreads, it becomes more important for the community to provide
benchmarks for measuring skill levels, to avoid Python being relegated to the,
respectfully, lightweight programmer category e.g. PHP or perhaps Ruby on
Rails (not Ruby the language).
Prior to PyCon I'd been thinking about some kind of campaign, service or
documents, that I call "So you think you know Python...". My initial idea was
for use by Python programmers, who are honest with themselves, to have a way
to measure their knowledge. We all run into or are programmers who think they
are hot-stuff, especially those of us who work solo as many in our community
do, but when put side-by-side against others, fall a bit short. PyCon can
have that effect, with so many smart people in a small area. ;-) But the
objective isn't to denegrate these programmers but to provide a measuring
stick, along with an educational roadmap, so they can make wise choices.
The rapid growth in use of Python is going to lead to a shortage in Python
programmers, unless we manage the supply side as well. The manager wanting to
find and hire good Python programmers is not an adversary seeking to use
certificates to commoditize our community, but an ally in helping us get
industry respect and career opportunities using our favorite language. We
need to behind what he asks for to see what he needs.
I've been carefully watching Crunchy, about which a talk was given at PyCon,
for writing tutorials that, with its "doctests" feature, could be used to
propose tests that pass and require a candidate to write an acceptable
program. This week I was prototyping an "rst2crunchy" tool, that let's you
write Crunchy scripts in reStructured Text, rather than HTML. Crunchy needs
more features, such as a user login facility and measurement facilities to
store test submissions for review by experienced Python programmers after they
pass. From what I hear on the edu-sig list, André Roberge and Johannes
Woolard are tackling these but could use more help. Johannes in particular
was a student for Google's Summer of Code 2006 and I believe is looking for
sponsorship for 2007.
But perhaps Crunchy is not the ready answer in this case, so I'm looking for
suggestions.
With regard to how a manager can know a person is good at Python, besides
looking at their portfolio of work, we could stake out conceptual areas of the
language or libraries about which a programmer should be conversant. This
might be a document, with example questions but carefully focused on what lies
behind those questions, so an interviewer can come up with his own questions
and avoid rote memorization. This conceptual map could also eventually form
the basis of advanced-placement in schools that goes beyond those terrible
Visual BASIC test questions. And for the Python programmer who wonders if his
knowledge is broad enough and wants to improve him or herself, the conceptual
map could have links/recommendations to training materials on specific topics.
Join me on the advocacy list and let's discuss this further.
You can join at:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/advocacy
Jeff Rush
Python Advocacy Coordinator