AlphaImage and css backgrounds

[Nik Coughin]

Damn Microsoft. Damn them to hell with IE's complete lack of support for
png alpha transparency without the use of a crappy hack, a crappy hack that
also doesn't work on repeating CSS backgrounds.

Please have a look at his with both IE and a real browser, if you have the
time:

http://www.nrkn.com/masterpiece/

Any ideas to make it look better in IE?

--
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million
typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" - Blair Houghton
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
http://www.nrkn.com/
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

 

[Roy Schestowitz]

Damn Microsoft. Damn them to hell with IE's complete lack of support for
png alpha transparency without the use of a crappy hack, a crappy hack
that also doesn't work on repeating CSS backgrounds.

Please have a look at his with both IE and a real browser, if you have the
time:

http://www.nrkn.com/masterpiece/

Any ideas to make it look better in IE?

Only hours ago I posted a comment on Eric Meyer's Web site about the
solution I use to PNG in IE...

http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/09/s5-11b2/#comment-2872

Roy

 

[Henry]

Damn Microsoft. Damn them to hell with IE's complete lack of support for
png alpha transparency without the use of a crappy hack, a crappy hack that
also doesn't work on repeating CSS backgrounds.

Please have a look at his with both IE and a real browser, if you have the
time:

http://www.nrkn.com/masterpiece/

Any ideas to make it look better in IE?

Great job Nik!

Unfortunately IE is here to stay as a dominant browser for many years!

I had a discussion with one of my friends about a stupidity of Internet
users.

I have installed FireFox on hundreds machines doing computer services.
What I have found, that maybe 2% are using it! I have installed it
Quicktime, Flash and Java, nothing to do, just browse.

NAH! They are to stupid to do that!

Often, when I ask "What browser you're using", I hear the question:
"What's the hell is that?"

"That's the blue E icon on the desktop!"

"Yeah = thingy for the Internet - I use it!"

Suppose that FF is heaps better, so what?

It will take MANY years to take over. IE took over Netscape because was
given as 'part' of OS.

As long as M$ will be number one as OS and Office producer, IE will
stay. Most likely for many years.

So... we have to design pages mainly for IE and the rest... just to
check it.

The main goal is a bloody IE.

Unfortunately...

 

[Roy Schestowitz]

So... we have to design pages mainly for IE and the rest... just to
check it.

The main goal is a bloody IE.

Unfortunately...

That's a wonderful way to express the situation. Cheer up Henry. If everyone
uses a cr*p browser, it puts you one step ahead. No pop-ups, no single tab,
mouse gestures, etc.

Roy

 

[Toby Inkster]

http://www.nrkn.com/masterpiece/

It looks very nice.

IE's problems with variable opacity are irritating to say the least. On my
latest project (an Intranet at work) I can happily ignore the issue, as the
percentage using IE is quite low and dropping.

I am still looking for a one line drop-in that I can use to fix images in
IE.

 

[Leonard Blaisdell]

Damn Microsoft. Damn them to hell with IE's complete lack of support for
png alpha transparency without the use of a crappy hack, a crappy hack that
also doesn't work on repeating CSS backgrounds.

Please have a look at his with both IE and a real browser, if you have the
time:

http://www.nrkn.com/masterpiece/

My, you do good cutting edge work. It was completely readable in MacIE 5.1
and the background spilled into artifacts of the intended design. It
looked the same except with your original intention in MacMozilla 1.2.1. I
wasn't too keen on your hover effect. Something more subtle than yellow.
Perhaps a far lighter yellow or yellow-cream. Subtle, subtle, subtle.
Maybe no border on the links or just the text changing color.
Of course, subtle will probably limit accessibility.

leo

 

[Nik Coughin]

Only hours ago I posted a comment on Eric Meyer's Web site about the
solution I use to PNG in IE...

http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/12/09/s5-11b2/#comment-2872

Roy

Hi Roy,

I had a play with using binary transparency and dithering, but it looked
awful. It's not like IE can't do alpha, I use it for foreground images all
the time, it's just so damn inflexible that I can't use it for background
images with repeats or positioning. I'm adding an inconspicuous footer to
all of my pages now that tells IE users that they should get a real browser.

 

[Nik Coughin]

Great job Nik!

Unfortunately IE is here to stay as a dominant browser for many years!

That doesn't mean that things will stay like this though. All the alternate
browsers have to do is gain enough market share to put the shits up
Microsoft enough that they release a new version of IE.

 

[Nik Coughin]

It looks very nice.

IE's problems with variable opacity are irritating to say the least.
On my latest project (an Intranet at work) I can happily ignore the
issue, as the percentage using IE is quite low and dropping.

I am still looking for a one line drop-in that I can use to fix
images in IE.

I use a slightly modified version of Justin's php script,
http://www.koivi.com/ie-png-transparency/. Not quite one line drop-in, but
close.

I am still looking for a very long pointy stick with which I can poke
IE-users worldwide in the eye without getting out of my seat.

 

[Nik Coughin]

My, you do good cutting edge work. It was completely readable in
MacIE 5.1 and the background spilled into artifacts of the intended
design. It looked the same except with your original intention in
MacMozilla 1.2.1.

I will head over to Browsercam so that I can see what you mean. Thanks.

 

[rf]

I'm adding an inconspicuous footer to
all of my pages now that tells IE users that they should get a real

browser.

Arrogant. Especially when you sniff the browser incorrectly. This is as bad
as those "best viewed with IE4" messages that were used last century.

Did it occur to you that some people *must* use IE and have no choice? Most
corporations that use Microsoft software insist that every computer is built
from a base disk image, by the IT department. Running foreign software (like
other browsers) is often a dismissable offence.

Walk into a library or an internet cafe and try to install a different
browser. You won't even get to run the install program because you do not
see the desktop, you see what they want you to see.

 

[Dylan Parry]

Arrogant. Especially when you sniff the browser incorrectly. This is as bad
as those "best viewed with IE4" messages that were used last century.

I agree that it is arrogant to tell the user to upgrade, but it doesn't
require any browser sniffing as such. You could use conditional
comments, which only IE supports, and so only IE would show the message
regardless.

 

[Nik Coughin]

Arrogant.

Perhaps so! Especially if I had put it in those exact words, but it's
inconspicuous, it's at the bottom of the page, and all it says is something
along the lines of "you are viewing a visually inferior version of this page
because you are using IE, I recommend that you download a modern browser
like Opera or Firefox".

 

[Travis Newbury]

Did it occur to you that some people *must* use IE and have no choice? Most
corporations that use Microsoft software insist that every computer is built
from a base disk image, by the IT department. Running foreign software (like
other browsers) is often a dismissable offence.

We needed special permission at when consulting at Siemens to add
firefox to our (supplied) development machines.

 

[Travis Newbury]

Perhaps so! Especially if I had put it in those exact words, but it's
inconspicuous, it's at the bottom of the page, and all it says is something
along the lines of "you are viewing a visually inferior version of this page
because you are using IE, I recommend that you download a modern browser
like Opera or Firefox".

I would probably leave as you are insulting my choice of browsers. (Not
really as I use firefox, but that is what comes across with your
statement.)

 

[Leif K-Brooks]

Perhaps so! Especially if I had put it in those exact words, but it's
inconspicuous, it's at the bottom of the page, and all it says is something
along the lines of "you are viewing a visually inferior version of this page
because you are using IE, I recommend that you download a modern browser
like Opera or Firefox".

That could still be seen as a bit offensive, though. I would use
something more like, "You appear to be using a Web browser called
Internet Explorer. You should have no problems using this site;
unfortunately, however, we are unable to give it the most polished
visual appearance in IE. If possible, please consider using a different
Web browser such as Opera or Firefox."

 

[Nik Coughin]

That could still be seen as a bit offensive, though. I would use
something more like, "You appear to be using a Web browser called
Internet Explorer. You should have no problems using this site;
unfortunately, however, we are unable to give it the most polished
visual appearance in IE. If possible, please consider using a
different Web browser such as Opera or Firefox."

At the moment I am using:
You are looking at a graphically inferior version of this page because you
are using Microsoft Internet Explorer. Microsoft has not updated Internet
Explorer since 2001. nrkn recommends that you download a modern browser such
as Firefox or Opera, both of which are free.

I prefer your version however.

 

[Dylan Parry]

If possible, please consider using a different
Web browser such as Opera or Firefox."

One short of "I... I... I say chaps, would you mind awfully if I asked
you to possibly, if it isn't too much trouble, to consider using another
browser? It's just Captain Mainwaring has asked me to use this
frightfully good image for the background, and it would be such a shame
if you were to miss it. Sorry to be a nuissance."

 

[rf]

At the moment I am using:
You are looking at a graphically inferior version of this page because you
are using Microsoft Internet Explorer. Microsoft has not updated Internet
Explorer since 2001. nrkn recommends that you download a modern browser such
as Firefox or Opera, both of which are free.

I prefer your version however.

Still disagree

If my Mother In Law (who *is* sort of computer literate, enough to assist in
the Computing for Seniors classes) were to see a message like that she would
ring me up and ask what is wrong with her computer. After all, no other web
site she has visited has told her that!

<aside>
Said MIL once rang up and told me my scanner was broken. Why? She didn't
recieve the picture I had scanned and sent to her. Why? She hadn't pressed
send/recieve on her email client
</aside>

She would *not* download firefox or opera. I have told her in no uncertain
terms to *never* install anything from the internet, just after the fifth
time I re-installed her OS due to virus infection. If she wants it then *I*
will download and disinfect it for her.

In any case where she lives firefox is most definately not free. She pays
for internet connection by the minute on a 28K baud connection and firefox
is not a small download. It'd probably cost her the price of quite a few
rum&cokes

 

[Neal]

Dylan Parry:

"I... I... I say chaps, would you mind awfully if I asked you to
possibly, if it isn't too much trouble, to consider using another
browser? It's just Captain Mainwaring has asked me to use this
frightfully good image for the background, and it would be such a shame
if you were to miss it. Sorry to be a nuissance."

"This site looks good in your browser. Unless it doesn't. In which case,
sorry."