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Message: [QUOTE="Kenny Tilton, post: 1732342"] Guilty! Guilty! Guilty! i did that when I asked someone about using symbols as initargs instead of keywords on defstructs, when of course defstruct creates the initargs without offering any overrides, so I knew the answer: "um, no, those are keywords". But then I felt my subterfuge would be obvious and it would be understood to be a clever way to point out that there was a standard practice the symbol initarg crowd was corrupting in order to calm their package paranoia (induced by package abuse (necessitated by bad naming)). kenny "the sophist" [/QUOTE]