Call for Grant Proposals

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=]

The Python Software Foundation is seeking grant proposals for projects
related to the further development of Python, Python-related technology,
and educational resources. The PSF plans to issue calls for proposals
regularly.

Proposals should be for specific projects with a clear objective, rather
than support for ongoing activities. Proposals should be brief (a few
pages of text), and they should explain:

a. what the objective of the project is,
b. what precisely the funds are needed for,
c. a delivery plan, indicating what deliverables will be provided at
what time, and
d. a payment plan, indicating what payments should be made at what
time.

Awarded grants can range up to $40,000.

Proposals for this call must be submitted before October 1, 2004.
Projects will start on November 1, 2004, and must be completed by
October 30, 2005. Proposals should be sent to (e-mail address removed).

Kind regards,
Martin v. Löwis

 

[Istvan Albert]

The Python Software Foundation is seeking grant proposals for projects
related to the further development of Python, Python-related technology,
and educational resources. The PSF plans to issue calls for proposals
regularly.

This is such an awesome idea and even more amazing is that you guys
have the funds to do it.

A biased opinion here, coming from java I think funding Jython (hopefully
they apply) would promote python better than just about any other project.
I wish companies like IBM would (or maybe already do) invest some resources
into Jython after all they seem to have bet a lot on Java.

Python + Jython could blow out of water just about any other development
environment.

cheers,

Istvan.

 

[Peter Hansen]

This is such an awesome idea and even more amazing is that you guys
have the funds to do it.

See http://www.python.org/psf/donations.html for just why this is so...
and consider getting your own name on the list.

It really shouldn't be considered "amazing" that people donate, I
think... it just makes sense.

-Peter

 

[Istvan Albert]

See http://www.python.org/psf/donations.html for just why this is so...
and consider getting your own name on the list.

will do.

i.

 

[Harry George]

This is such an awesome idea and even more amazing is that you guys
have the funds to do it.

A biased opinion here, coming from java I think funding Jython (hopefully
they apply) would promote python better than just about any other project.
I wish companies like IBM would (or maybe already do) invest some resources
into Jython after all they seem to have bet a lot on Java.

Python + Jython could blow out of water just about any other development
environment.

cheers,

Istvan.

Not coming from java, but living in a Java-mandated world, I concur on
Jython being valuable. But we also need a solid Java-cPython
interface. JPE was the original effort. JPype is more recent.

http://jpe.sourceforge.net/
http://jpype.sourceforge.net/

 

[Maurice LING]

Hi,

I have a few questions to ask about this grant and I've emailed this to
(e-mail address removed) but had no replies yet. Maybe someone authoritative
from PSF can help me out in this or anyone can put in some comments.

I am currently a postgraduate student in the University of Melbourne,
Australia, and would like to put forward a proposal for the PSF Grant
this year. However before I can do so, I have some queries regarding the
nature of this grant and its impact on my research work, which will be
precipitating to a degree of Doctor of Philosophy.

1. Is there a requirement to release the deliverables, including,
software, source codes, specifications and documentation, to the general
public using any of the Open Source Initiative (OSI) approved open
source licences?

2. Will there be any form of intellectual property claims, including,
copyrights, trade marks, patents, on any form of work generated from the
PSF Grant by the Python Software Foundation (PSF) or any of its
associates? If so, what are the precise nature of it? This is important
as it may injure the research work and subsequently, the resultant
thesis and publications directing towards the award of my degree.

3. On the website (http://www.python.org/psf/call-2004.html), it is
stated that the project of which the grant is granted for must be
completed by October 30, 2005. In event of failure to meet, what will be
the penalities?

4. From Question 3, what constitutes partial failure or complete failure
of the project?

5. From Question 4, it is stated on the website
(http://www.python.org/psf/call-2004.html) that a delivery plan is
essential in the proposal. How will delay in delivery affect the payment
plan and the grant on the whole?

6. Can the PSF Grant be used to generate proprietary work and yet,
furthering the development of Python, Python-related technology, and
educational resources? An example of such is the development of a
proprietary Integrated Development Environment (IDE).

Awaiting for you replies.

Warmest regards,
Maurice Ling

 

[Anthony Baxter]

I have a few questions to ask about this grant and I've emailed this to
(e-mail address removed) but had no replies yet. Maybe someone authoritative
from PSF can help me out in this or anyone can put in some comments.

1. Is there a requirement to release the deliverables, including,
software, source codes, specifications and documentation, to the general
public using any of the Open Source Initiative (OSI) approved open
source licences?

I'm not on the grants committee, but I'd _expect_ that this would be the
case, yes. Will this be a problem?

Anthony

 

[Maurice Ling]

I'm not on the grants committee, but I'd _expect_ that this would be the
case, yes. Will this be a problem?

Anthony

This might be a problem if I am trying to apply this grant for a closed
source project but still advancing python and its related technology, as
I've stated in the same email (question 6, if I'm not wrong). I've given
the example of applying this grant for the development of a Python IDE
or sort but as a closed source project. It seems that the grants
committee has no clear wordings, which will make dealings with companies
extremely difficult. I'm unable to convince my lawyers and management
without concise wordings by PSF.

It seems to me as that this grant is only applicable for hobbyist.

Cheers
Maurice

--
Maurice Han Tong LING, BSc(Hons)(Biochem), AdvDipComp, SN
Doctor of Philosophy (Science) Candidate, The University of Melbourne
mobile: +61 4 22781753
+65 96669233
mailing address: Department of Zoology, The University of Melbourne
Royal Parade, Parkville, Victoria 3010, Australia
residential address: 9/41 Dover Street
Flemington, Victoria 3031, Australia
email: (e-mail address removed)
resume: http://maurice.vodien.com/maurice_resume.pdf
www: http://www.geocities.com/beldin79/

The information contained in this message, including its attachment(s),
is CONFIDENTIAL and solely intended to its addressee(s) only. The
content of this message, including its attachment(s), may be subjected
to copyright and privacy laws. If you have received this email in error,
please let me know by returning this email, and then destroy all copies.

"I cannot discover anyone knows enough to say definitely what is
and what is not possible" -Henry Ford
"The difference between the impossible and the possible lies
in a person's determination" -Tommy Charles Lasorda

 

[Maurice Ling]

I'm really not sure what you mean. Plenty of people in "the corporate world"
do open source. Plenty of people in "the corporate world" make money from
open source.

No doubt that people are making money from open source but equivalently,
the same people may be making money from closed source. I'm arguing that
the wordings of this grant is not clear, to the point that we do not
know if this grant is applicable to us.

If the terms for the grants are that the project be open source,
how is this a problem?

Then it will means that some projects may not be able to apply for this
grant if it is the requirement of the project to be proprietary due to
business strategy. What you are saying is that all projects should be
open sourced but that may not be the case. Either that or you are
indiscriminately lobbying for the cause of open source irregards of
whether companies are ready for it or not, and then discriminating
against companies who are not ready for it yet. Although I support open
source development and had personally donated my work to Sourceforge and
Biopython project, I will think that it is tyrannic to assume all work
must be open sourced.

It simply means that the person or organisation who
applies for the grants has to factor that element into their calculations.

Without knowing the elements, how am I going to convince anyone on that?
I'm not omnipotent.

Any company in 2004 who is still working in a mode that open source is
some strange thing that isn't used 'in the real world' is probably slow-moving
roadkill.

As mentioned above, parts of the work by my organization had been
donated to public cause, including Biopython project and large public
institutions like NCBI. Even the Online Mendelian Inheritance of Animals
(OMIA) database was initially developed by people in my organization. As
far as I know, some work precipitating to masters degrees had been made
open sourced. So, please refrain from making harsh conclusions. Having
said that, there is always a rubber-stamping process before an open
sourced decision is made. But the wordings and inexactness of this call
for grant proposal makes it hard for me even to get to convince my
people that we should put in an application, not mentioning the
rubber-stamping.

Cheers
Maurice

 

[Tim Peters]

[Maurice Ling, wants to know whether PSF grants require funded work to be
open-sourced, etc]

While I'm a PSF Director, I'm not on the Grants Committee and don't
speak for them.

I'll just note that since the PSF is a public charity (under US tax
law), there are a lot of rules the PSF has to comply with when
distributing its funds. I expect that answering your questions will
require paying a lawyer to spell out what's possible. I don't know
what they'll say. In general, the PSF is required to act in the
public interest.

That said, the PSF doesn't have a ton of money, and there will almost
certainly be more worthy requests for funding than there are funds to
pass out. Proposals will therefore compete. If I were on the Grants
Committee, whether a proposal would benefit the public at large would
be a major consideration for me. IOW, I think it's predictable-- and
appropriate --that proposals to fund open-source work will "score
points" for that reason alone.

 

[Maurice LING]

Hi,

At the same time, there are other questions besides an issue with open
source or close source development.

These 4 questions in my original email are probably more important to
me, personally...

2. Will there be any form of intellectual property claims, including,
copyrights, trade marks, patents, on any form of work generated from the
PSF Grant by the Python Software Foundation (PSF) or any of its
associates? If so, what are the precise nature of it? This is important
as it may injure the research work and subsequently, the resultant
thesis and publications directing towards the award of my degree.

3. On the website (http://www.python.org/psf/call-2004.html), it is
stated that the project of which the grant is granted for must be
completed by October 30, 2005. In event of failure to meet, what will be
the penalities?

4. From Question 3, what constitutes partial failure or complete failure
of the project?

5. From Question 4, it is stated on the website
(http://www.python.org/psf/call-2004.html) that a delivery plan is
essential in the proposal. How will delay in delivery affect the payment
plan and the grant on the whole?

The answers to these questions are something that the grant committee
can answer now as it involves internal policy. As for Question 2, I
cannot be in a project that will take up my time and cannot be directed
towards the award of my degree.

The next 3 questions deal closely with my lab's financial budgetting and
without any answers to these questions, I can be in dire straits when
things doesn't go as planned.

Maurice

[Maurice Ling, wants to know whether PSF grants require funded work to be
open-sourced, etc]

While I'm a PSF Director, I'm not on the Grants Committee and don't
speak for them.

I'll just note that since the PSF is a public charity (under US tax
law), there are a lot of rules the PSF has to comply with when
distributing its funds. I expect that answering your questions will
require paying a lawyer to spell out what's possible. I don't know
what they'll say. In general, the PSF is required to act in the
public interest.

That said, the PSF doesn't have a ton of money, and there will almost
certainly be more worthy requests for funding than there are funds to
pass out. Proposals will therefore compete. If I were on the Grants
Committee, whether a proposal would benefit the public at large would
be a major consideration for me. IOW, I think it's predictable-- and
appropriate --that proposals to fund open-source work will "score
points" for that reason alone.

--
Maurice Han Tong LING, BSc(Hons)(Biochem), AdvDipComp, SN
Doctor of Philosophy (Science) Candidate, The University of Melbourne
mobile: +61 4 22781753
+65 96669233
mailing address: Department of Zoology, The University of Melbourne
Royal Parade, Parkville, Victoria 3010, Australia
residential address: 9/41 Dover Street
Flemington, Victoria 3031, Australia
email: (e-mail address removed)
resume: http://maurice.vodien.com/maurice_resume.pdf
www: http://www.geocities.com/beldin79/

The information contained in this message, including its attachment(s),
is CONFIDENTIAL and solely intended to its addressee(s) only. The
content of this message, including its attachment(s), may be subjected
to copyright and privacy laws. If you have received this email in error,
please let me know by returning this email, and then destroy all copies.

"I cannot discover anyone knows enough to say definitely what is
and what is not possible" -Henry Ford
"The difference between the impossible and the possible lies
in a person's determination" -Tommy Charles Lasorda

 

[Peter Hansen]

Then it will means that some projects may not be able to apply for this
grant if it is the requirement of the project to be proprietary due to
business strategy. What you are saying is that all projects should be
open sourced but that may not be the case. Either that or you are
indiscriminately lobbying for the cause of open source irregards of
whether companies are ready for it or not, and then discriminating
against companies who are not ready for it yet. Although I support open
source development and had personally donated my work to Sourceforge and
Biopython project, I will think that it is tyrannic to assume all work
must be open sourced.

"Tyrannic" is hardly an appropriate adjective to apply to this
situation, either in letter or spirit. You are asking for money to be
*given* to you here... it's a privilege, not a right.

Anyway, I suspect I'm not alone (as one of the people who have made
a donation, however small) in feeling very uncomfortable with the
idea of much of that money being used to fund closed-source projects.

-Peter

 

[Aahz]

Speaking as a PSF member who is or has been on some of the operating
committees, but not a member of the PSF board or the grant committee:

2. Will there be any form of intellectual property claims, including,
copyrights, trade marks, patents, on any form of work generated from the
PSF Grant by the Python Software Foundation (PSF) or any of its
associates? If so, what are the precise nature of it? This is important
as it may injure the research work and subsequently, the resultant
thesis and publications directing towards the award of my degree.

There will be no claims by the PSF itself unless you assign your work;
that follows more-or-less from choosing projects that are are Open
Source.

3. On the website (http://www.python.org/psf/call-2004.html), it is
stated that the project of which the grant is granted for must be
completed by October 30, 2005. In event of failure to meet, what will be
the penalities?

4. From Question 3, what constitutes partial failure or complete failure
of the project?

We don't know. We're feeling our way into this. I suspect people would
rather take a wait-and-see attitude until we actually have to deal with
these issues.

5. From Question 4, it is stated on the website
(http://www.python.org/psf/call-2004.html) that a delivery plan is
essential in the proposal. How will delay in delivery affect the payment
plan and the grant on the whole?

We're talking about US$40K in grants total; I expect that grants will
simply be issued up-front for the most part. (The PSF's total monetary
resources right now are around US$115K.) I'd expect that if a grant
proposal ties payments to delivery targets, the penalty for missing
delivery will be delay of the next grant payment.

We're putting a certain amount of formalism into this because we have
to; however, you'll be much better off if you think of this as "Python
community money" that's being spread around to grease projects that are
having trouble getting traction. There are basically two and only two
criteria that really matter:

* Will this project benefit a large portion of the Python community?

* Will giving money to this project move it forward?

Instead of asking general questions like this, why don't you simply tell
us what your proposal is, and we'll help you refine it before you send
it in to the grant committee?
--
Aahz ([email protected]) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"To me vi is Zen. To use vi is to practice zen. Every command is a
koan. Profound to the user, unintelligible to the uninitiated. You
discover truth everytime you use it." (e-mail address removed)

 

[Maurice LING]

Thank you for you help. Please see inserts below.

Speaking as a PSF member who is or has been on some of the operating
committees, but not a member of the PSF board or the grant committee:




There will be no claims by the PSF itself unless you assign your work;
that follows more-or-less from choosing projects that are are Open
Source.

Thanks. Quite obviously I cannot do something that will not count
towards my degree at this stage.

We don't know. We're feeling our way into this. I suspect people would
rather take a wait-and-see attitude until we actually have to deal with
these issues.

This is by itself a tricky issue. But as with all projects, a majority
of them don't end up as expected, otherwise, the world would have stop
our dependency on fossil fuels years ago. Is there any general
guidelines yet?

We're talking about US$40K in grants total; I expect that grants will
simply be issued up-front for the most part. (The PSF's total monetary
resources right now are around US$115K.) I'd expect that if a grant
proposal ties payments to delivery targets, the penalty for missing
delivery will be delay of the next grant payment.

We're putting a certain amount of formalism into this because we have
to; however, you'll be much better off if you think of this as "Python
community money" that's being spread around to grease projects that are
having trouble getting traction. There are basically two and only two
criteria that really matter:

* Will this project benefit a large portion of the Python community?

* Will giving money to this project move it forward?

Instead of asking general questions like this, why don't you simply tell
us what your proposal is, and we'll help you refine it before you send
it in to the grant committee?

I do wish I can put down my proposal now but I'm unable to do so due to
NDAs. Especially when this forum is public. That is why I can only state
my problems very generally and the only time I can disclose it in
entirety is in the proposal itself.

Thanks for your help.

Cheers
Maurice

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=]

I have a few questions to ask about this grant and I've emailed this to
(e-mail address removed) but had no replies yet. Maybe someone authoritative
from PSF can help me out in this or anyone can put in some comments.

For some reason, I did not get your message there - although I see it
is in the psf-grants archives. I don't know how that happened - my
apologies.

1. Is there a requirement to release the deliverables, including,
software, source codes, specifications and documentation, to the general
public using any of the Open Source Initiative (OSI) approved open
source licences?

Not necessarily. There is no requirement that the deliverables are
source code; if they aren't, OSI rules obviously don't apply.

2. Will there be any form of intellectual property claims, including,
copyrights, trade marks, patents, on any form of work generated from the
PSF Grant by the Python Software Foundation (PSF) or any of its
associates? If so, what are the precise nature of it?

Not necessarily. Applicants can, of course, assign their copyright to
the PSF, but we can certainly fund projects which don't. If you plan to
file patents on the results, it would be good to point that out in the
proposal.

3. On the website (http://www.python.org/psf/call-2004.html), it is
stated that the project of which the grant is granted for must be
completed by October 30, 2005. In event of failure to meet, what will be
the penalities?

This should be explained in the delivery and payment plans that you
submit. It would be a good idea if partial results were available at
some point, and partial payments were made after delivery of the partial
results.

4. From Question 3, what constitutes partial failure or complete failure
of the project?

Non-delivery of deliverables.

5. From Question 4, it is stated on the website
(http://www.python.org/psf/call-2004.html) that a delivery plan is
essential in the proposal. How will delay in delivery affect the payment
plan and the grant on the whole?

You should also include a payment plan. We will not only evaluate the
delivery plan, but also the payment plan, and take the likelyhood and
the cost of failure into account when evaluating the project.

6. Can the PSF Grant be used to generate proprietary work and yet,
furthering the development of Python, Python-related technology, and
educational resources? An example of such is the development of a
proprietary Integrated Development Environment (IDE).

In principle, yes. As Tim explains, proposals will compete with each
other. We will try to evaluate how much the project serves the public,
and in particular the Python community.

Regards,
Martin