Can't Install Perl as Non-Root

[dawmail333]

Hi!

I was trying to install a personal version of Perl to my own user
folder. I am running on a remote webserver that uses Apache. I have
succeeded with the following steps:

wget http://perl.com/CPAN/src/stable.tar.gz
tar zvxf stable.tar.gz
cd perl-5.8.8
sh Configure -de -Dprefix=/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl/

This is the line I encounter problems on:
make && make test && make install

This is the 'dump':
Extracting find2perl (with variable substitutions)

make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.8.8/x2p'

Making B (dynamic)
opendir(./../../../../..): Permission denied at ../../lib/File/Find.pm
line 604
Use of chdir('') or chdir(undef) as chdir() is deprecated at ../../lib/
File/Find
..pm line 751.
opendir(./../..): Permission denied at ../../lib/ExtUtils/MakeMaker.pm
line 170
Couldn't change to directory /home/.bazooka/dawliam/C: No such file or
directory
at Makefile.PL line 18
Writing Makefile for B
Warning: No Makefile!
make[1]: Entering directory `/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.8.8/ext/B'
make[1]: *** No rule to make target `config'. Stop.
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.8.8/ext/B'
make config failed, continuing anyway...
make[1]: Entering directory `/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.8.8/ext/B'
make[1]: *** No rule to make target `all'. Stop.
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.8.8/ext/B'
make: *** [lib/auto/B/B.so] Error 2
[hyperion]$ /home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl -MCPAN -e shell
-bash: /home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl: is a directory
[hyperion]$

Can anyone help? Thanks in advance.

 

[Ben Morrow]

Hi!

I was trying to install a personal version of Perl to my own user
folder. I am running on a remote webserver that uses Apache. I have
succeeded with the following steps:

wget http://perl.com/CPAN/src/stable.tar.gz
tar zvxf stable.tar.gz
cd perl-5.8.8
sh Configure -de -Dprefix=/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl/

This is the line I encounter problems on:
make && make test && make install

This is the 'dump':
Extracting find2perl (with variable substitutions)

make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.8.8/x2p'

Making B (dynamic)
opendir(./../../../../..): Permission denied at ../../lib/File/Find.pm
line 604

File::Find is trying to work out its cwd, which means it needs to be
able to readdir all the directories down from /. Do you not have read
permission on /home?

Use of chdir('') or chdir(undef) as chdir() is deprecated at ../../lib/
File/Find
.pm line 751.

This is a bug in File::Find. If it can't determine the cwd (and it
really needs to) it should fail, not start randomly chdiring all over
the place.

The rest of the errors are a consequence of being in the wrong
directory.

Is it possible for you to build perl (not necessarily install perl) in a
directory where you *can* read all the directories down from /? Perhaps
/tmp, if there's enough room there? Otherwise, try 5.10.0, which has a
newer version of Cwd that (at least on my machine) doesn't fail in the
same way.

Ben

 

[dawmail333]

Quoth dawmail333 <[email protected]>:

Hi!

I was trying to install a personal version of Perl to my own user
folder.  I am running on a remote webserver that uses Apache.  I have
succeeded with the following steps:

wgethttp://perl.com/CPAN/src/stable.tar.gz
tar zvxf stable.tar.gz
cd perl-5.8.8
sh Configure -de -Dprefix=/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl/

This is the line I encounter problems on:
make && make test && make install

This is the 'dump':
Extracting find2perl (with variable substitutions)

make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.8.8/x2p'

        Making B (dynamic)
opendir(./../../../../..): Permission denied at ../../lib/File/Find.pm
line 604

File::Find is trying to work out its cwd, which means it needs to be
able to readdir all the directories down from /. Do you not have read
permission on /home?

Use of chdir('') or chdir(undef) as chdir() is deprecated at ../../lib/
File/Find
.pm line 751.

This is a bug in File::Find. If it can't determine the cwd (and it
really needs to) it should fail, not start randomly chdiring all over
the place.

The rest of the errors are a consequence of being in the wrong
directory.

Is it possible for you to build perl (not necessarily install perl) in a
directory where you *can* read all the directories down from /? Perhaps
/tmp, if there's enough room there? Otherwise, try 5.10.0, which has a
newer version of Cwd that (at least on my machine) doesn't fail in the
same way.

Ben

I don't have read permissions in home, and I don't think I have write
in tmp either. Doesn't that get removed anyway?

I tried 5.10, and this is my new error.

make: *** [install] Error 2
[hyperion]$ make
AutoSplitting perl library
./miniperl -Ilib -e 'use AutoSplit; \
autosplit_lib_modules(@ARGV)' lib/*.pm
./miniperl -Ilib -e 'use AutoSplit; \
autosplit_lib_modules(@ARGV)' lib/*/*.pm
make lib/re.pm
make[1]: Entering directory `/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.10.0'
make[1]: `lib/re.pm' is up to date.
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.10.0'

Making DynaLoader (static)
make[1]: Entering directory `/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.10.0/ext/
DynaLoader'
/bin/sh: line 1: /miniperl: No such file or directory
make[1]: *** [../../lib/.exists] Error 127
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.10.0/ext/
DynaLoader'
make config failed, continuing anyway...
make[1]: Entering directory `/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.10.0/ext/
DynaLoader'
/bin/sh: line 1: /miniperl: No such file or directory
make[1]: *** [../../lib/.exists] Error 127
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.10.0/ext/
DynaLoader'
make: *** [DynaLoader.o] Error 2

What the hell is going wrong now???

 

[Ben Morrow]

I don't have read permissions in home, and I don't think I have write
in tmp either. Doesn't that get removed anyway?

It doesn't matter if it gets removed: you only need to build perl there,
not install it, so you'd remove the build tree afterwards anyway.

I tried 5.10, and this is my new error.

make[1]: Entering directory `/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.10.0/ext/
DynaLoader'
/bin/sh: line 1: /miniperl: No such file or directory

This looks like the same problem: the Makefile is supposed to invoke
miniperl by an absolute path, but it is failing because it can't work
out its cwd. If you look at ext/Dynaloader/Makefile, what is ABSPERL set
to (it's in the section called 'MakeMaker constants section')? It should
be an absolute path to miniperl in the build directory.

I suspect you may not be able to fix this, as MakeMaker needs to know
its cwd, even after perl is installed. Can you find it at all? What do
you get if you run, from the build directory,

/bin/pwd
./miniperl -Ilib -MCwd -le'print Cwd::getcwd'
./miniperl -Ilib -MCwd -le'print Cwd::cwd'

If one of those works, you may be able to patch MakeMaker to use it.

Ben

 

[dawmail333]

I don't have read permissions in home, and I don't think I have write
in tmp either.  Doesn't that get removed anyway?

It doesn't matter if it gets removed: you only need to build perl there,
not install it, so you'd remove the build tree afterwards anyway.

I tried 5.10, and this is my new error.

make[1]: Entering directory `/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.10.0/ext/
DynaLoader'
/bin/sh: line 1: /miniperl: No such file or directory

This looks like the same problem: the Makefile is supposed to invoke
miniperl by an absolute path, but it is failing because it can't work
out its cwd. If you look at ext/Dynaloader/Makefile, what is ABSPERL set
to (it's in the section called 'MakeMaker constants section')? It should
be an absolute path to miniperl in the build directory.

I suspect you may not be able to fix this, as MakeMaker needs to know
its cwd, even after perl is installed. Can you find it at all? What do
you get if you run, from the build directory,

    /bin/pwd
    ./miniperl -Ilib -MCwd -le'print Cwd::getcwd'
    ./miniperl -Ilib -MCwd -le'print Cwd::cwd'

If one of those works, you may be able to patch MakeMaker to use it.

Ben

This line works:
./miniperl -Ilib -MCwd -le'print Cwd::cwd'
So how do I patch Dynaloader?

 

[Ben Morrow]

This line works:
./miniperl -Ilib -MCwd -le'print Cwd::cwd'
So how do I patch Dynaloader?

Apply this patch with patch -p0 <cwd.patch from in the perl source
directory. Check after you have installed perl that you can still
install XS modules sucessfully, and make sure you don't upgrade
File::Spec (if you do, you'll need to patch it again) . Could you let
me know if this works? If it does I'll suggest it to the File::Spec
maintainer.

Ben

--- lib/File/Spec/Unix.pm Tue Dec 18 10:47:07 2007
+++ lib/File/Spec/Unix.pm.cwd Thu Jan 24 02:38:09 2008
@@ -475,7 +475,7 @@
# File::Spec subclasses use this.
sub _cwd {
require Cwd;
- Cwd::getcwd();
+ Cwd::cwd();
}

 

[dawmail333]

Quoth dawmail333 <[email protected]>:





Apply this patch with patch -p0 <cwd.patch from in the perl source
directory. Check after you have installed perl that you can still
install XS modules sucessfully, and make sure you don't upgrade
File::Spec (if you do, you'll need to patch it again) . Could you let
me know if this works? If it does I'll suggest it to the File::Spec
maintainer.

Ben

--- lib/File/Spec/Unix.pm       Tue Dec 18 10:47:07 2007
+++ lib/File/Spec/Unix.pm.cwd   Thu Jan 24 02:38:09 2008
@@ -475,7 +475,7 @@
 # File::Spec subclasses use this.
 sub _cwd {
     require Cwd;
-    Cwd::getcwd();
+    Cwd::cwd();
 }

Sorry, I'm not a terribly knowledgeable person about Linux. Could you
please give me easy, step by step commands to follow? I can access a
terminal and all that, but I have never installed Perl before, and
don't understand what you are saying.

 

[Ben Morrow]

Sorry, I'm not a terribly knowledgeable person about Linux. Could you
please give me easy, step by step commands to follow? I can access a
terminal and all that, but I have never installed Perl before, and
don't understand what you are saying.

OK, that's fine .

- Save this message somewhere, and transfer it to the machine you're
building perl on. Make sure your newsreader/ftp client/whatever
doesn't mangle it.

- Delete your perl build directory and untar it again.

rm -rf perl-5.10.0
tar -xzvf perl-5.10.0.tar.gz

- Copy this message into the new perl-5.10.0 directory as cwd.patch.

cp this.message perl-5.10.0/cwd.patch

- cd into the perl build directory.

cd perl-5.10.0

- Run the command

patch -p0 <cwd.patch

- Try to build perl again.

- If it succeeds, and installs correctly, try installing an XS
module from CPAN, to make sure it works. Something like

/path/to/new/perl -MCPAN -e'force(install => "Scalar::Util")'

. This should succeed.

If you could post the output of

/path/to/new/perl -MCwd -le'print Cwd::cwd'
/path/to/new/perl -MCwd -le'print Cwd::getcwd'

after installing, this would be helpful: at least on my system, getcwd
only fails under miniperl, as getcwd(3) has kernel support and doesn't
need readable directories.

Ben

[patch appended again]

--- lib/File/Spec/Unix.pm Thu Jan 24 04:18:08 2008
+++ lib/File/Spec/Unix.pm.cwd Thu Jan 24 04:19:40 2008
@@ -475,7 +475,7 @@
# File::Spec subclasses use this.
sub _cwd {
require Cwd;
- Cwd::getcwd();
+ Cwd::cwd();
}

 

[dawmail333]

Sorry, I'm not a terribly knowledgeable person about Linux.  Could you
please give me easy, step by step commands to follow?  I can access a
terminal and all that, but I have never installed Perl before, and
don't understand what you are saying.

OK, that's fine .

    - Save this message somewhere, and transfer it to the machine you're
      building perl on. Make sure your newsreader/ftp client/whatever
      doesn't mangle it.

    - Delete your perl build directory and untar it again.

        rm -rf perl-5.10.0
        tar -xzvf perl-5.10.0.tar.gz

    - Copy this message into the new perl-5.10.0 directory as cwd.patch.

        cp this.message perl-5.10.0/cwd.patch

    - cd into the perl build directory.

        cd perl-5.10.0

    - Run the command

        patch -p0 <cwd.patch

    - Try to build perl again.

    - If it succeeds, and installs correctly, try installing an XS
      module from CPAN, to make sure it works. Something like

        /path/to/new/perl -MCPAN -e'force(install => "Scalar::Util")'

      . This should succeed.

If you could post the output of

    /path/to/new/perl -MCwd -le'print Cwd::cwd'
    /path/to/new/perl -MCwd -le'print Cwd::getcwd'

after installing, this would be helpful: at least on my system, getcwd
only fails under miniperl, as getcwd(3) has kernel support and doesn't
need readable directories.

Ben

[patch appended again]

--- lib/File/Spec/Unix.pm       Thu Jan 24 04:18:08 2008
+++ lib/File/Spec/Unix.pm.cwd   Thu Jan 24 04:19:40 2008
@@ -475,7 +475,7 @@
 # File::Spec subclasses use this.
 sub _cwd {
     require Cwd;
-    Cwd::getcwd();
+    Cwd::cwd();
 }

That patch didn't work, so I manually changed the line in question.
It then went much further, until:

including snprintf
including exception
including strlfuncs
running /home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.10.0/miniperl -I../../../lib
ppport_h.PL
installing ppport.h for ext/Time/HiRes
installing ppport.h for ext/Win32API/File
removing temporary file PPPort.pm
removing temporary file ppport.h

Making B (dynamic)
opendir(./../../../../..): Permission denied at ../../lib/File/Find.pm
line 605
Use of chdir('') or chdir(undef) as chdir() is deprecated at ../../lib/
File/Find
.pm line 768.
Writing Makefile for B
Warning: No Makefile!
make[1]: Entering directory `/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.10.0/ext/B'
make[1]: *** No rule to make target `config'. Stop.
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.10.0/ext/B'
make config failed, continuing anyway...
make[1]: Entering directory `/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.10.0/ext/B'
make[1]: *** No rule to make target `all'. Stop.
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.10.0/ext/B'
make: *** [lib/auto/B/B.so] Error 2
[hyperion]$

Is this another error to do with not being able to read the /home/ dir?

 

[dawmail333]

Quoth dawmail333 <[email protected]>:

OK, that's fine .

    - Save this message somewhere, and transfer it to the machine you're
      building perl on. Make sure your newsreader/ftp client/whatever
      doesn't mangle it.

    - Delete your perl build directory and untar it again.

        rm -rf perl-5.10.0
        tar -xzvf perl-5.10.0.tar.gz

    - Copy this message into the new perl-5.10.0 directory as cwd.patch.

        cp this.message perl-5.10.0/cwd.patch

    - cd into the perl build directory.

        cd perl-5.10.0

    - Run the command

        patch -p0 <cwd.patch

    - Try to build perl again.

    - If it succeeds, and installs correctly, try installing an XS
      module from CPAN, to make sure it works. Something like

        /path/to/new/perl -MCPAN -e'force(install => "Scalar::Util")'

      . This should succeed.

If you could post the output of

    /path/to/new/perl -MCwd -le'print Cwd::cwd'
    /path/to/new/perl -MCwd -le'print Cwd::getcwd'

after installing, this would be helpful: at least on my system, getcwd
only fails under miniperl, as getcwd(3) has kernel support and doesn't
need readable directories.

Ben

[patch appended again]

--- lib/File/Spec/Unix.pm       Thu Jan 24 04:18:08 2008
+++ lib/File/Spec/Unix.pm.cwd   Thu Jan 24 04:19:40 2008
@@ -475,7 +475,7 @@
 # File::Spec subclasses use this.
 sub _cwd {
     require Cwd;
-    Cwd::getcwd();
+    Cwd::cwd();
 }

That patch didn't work, so I manually changed the line in question.
It then went much further, until:

including snprintf
including exception
including strlfuncs
running /home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.10.0/miniperl -I../../../lib
ppport_h.PL
installing ppport.h for ext/Time/HiRes
installing ppport.h for ext/Win32API/File
removing temporary file PPPort.pm
removing temporary file ppport.h

        Making B (dynamic)
opendir(./../../../../..): Permission denied at ../../lib/File/Find.pm
line 605
Use of chdir('') or chdir(undef) as chdir() is deprecated at ../../lib/
File/Find
.pm line 768.
Writing Makefile for B
Warning: No Makefile!
make[1]: Entering directory `/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.10.0/ext/B'
make[1]: *** No rule to make target `config'.  Stop.
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.10.0/ext/B'
make config failed, continuing anyway...
make[1]: Entering directory `/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.10.0/ext/B'
make[1]: *** No rule to make target `all'.  Stop.
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.10.0/ext/B'
make: *** [lib/auto/B/B.so] Error 2
[hyperion]$

Is this another error to do with not being able to read the /home/ dir?

Sorry, I fixed this problem as well. I have hit another one:

make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.10.0/ext/
Digest/SHA'

Making Encode (dynamic)
opendir(../../lib/../../../..): Permission denied at ../../lib/
ExtUtils/MakeMake
r.pm line 182
opendir(./../../../../..): Permission denied at ../../lib/ExtUtils/
MakeMaker.pm
line 182
ERROR from evaluation of /home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.10.0/ext/Encode/
Byte/Make
file.PL: Can't locate File/Spec/Functions.pm in @INC (@INC
contains: ../../lib /
home/.bazooka/dawliam/bin/perl/lib/5.10.0/i686-linux /home/.bazooka/
dawliam/bin/
perl/lib/5.10.0 /home/.bazooka/dawliam/bin/perl/lib/site_perl/5.10.0/
i686-linux
/home/.bazooka/dawliam/bin/perl/lib/site_perl/5.10.0 . .) at ./
Makefile.PL line
4.
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at ./Makefile.PL line 4.
Warning: No Makefile!
make[1]: Entering directory `/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.10.0/ext/
Encode'
make[1]: *** No rule to make target `config'. Stop.
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.10.0/ext/
Encode'
make config failed, continuing anyway...
make[1]: Entering directory `/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.10.0/ext/
Encode'
make[1]: *** No rule to make target `all'. Stop.
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.10.0/ext/
Encode'
make: *** [lib/auto/Encode/Encode.so] Error 2
[hyperion]$

/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.10.0/ext/Encode/lib/auto doesn't exist.
/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.10.0/lib/auto/Encode/Encode.so doesn't
exist.

What do I need to do now?

Oh BTW, thanks for the help so far.

 

[Ben Morrow]

It applied when it left here (I checked), so your newsreader made a mess
of it somehow.

Sorry, I fixed this problem as well. I have hit another one:

make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.10.0/ext/
Digest/SHA'

Making Encode (dynamic)
opendir(../../lib/../../../..): Permission denied at ../../lib/
ExtUtils/MakeMake
r.pm line 182

OK, this is getting silly... one more try, then I'm giving up .

Ben

--- lib/Cwd.pm Tue Dec 18 10:47:07 2007
+++ lib/Cwd.pm.cwd Thu Jan 24 12:33:29 2008
@@ -501,6 +501,11 @@
sub _perl_abs_path
{
my $start = @_ ? shift : '.';
+
+ # this just returns a path down from /, without attempting to
+ # resolve .. or symlinks. It *may* be sufficient to build perl.
+ return $start =~ m!^/! ? $start : cwd() . '/' . $start;
+
my($dotdots, $cwd, @pst, @cst, $dir, @tst);

unless (@cst = stat( $start ))

 

[dawmail333]

It applied when it left here (I checked), so your newsreader made a mess
of it somehow.

Sorry, I fixed this problem as well.  I have hit another one:

make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.10.0/ext/
Digest/SHA'

        Making Encode (dynamic)
opendir(../../lib/../../../..): Permission denied at ../../lib/
ExtUtils/MakeMake
r.pm line 182

OK, this is getting silly... one more try, then I'm giving up .

Ben

--- lib/Cwd.pm  Tue Dec 18 10:47:07 2007
+++ lib/Cwd.pm.cwd      Thu Jan 24 12:33:29 2008
@@ -501,6 +501,11 @@
 sub _perl_abs_path
 {
     my $start = @_ ? shift : '.';
+
+    # this just returns a path down from /, without attempting to
+    # resolve .. or symlinks. It *may* be sufficient to build perl.
+    return $start =~ m!^/! ? $start : cwd() . '/' . $start;
+
     my($dotdots, $cwd, @pst, @cst, $dir, @tst);

     unless (@cst = stat( $start ))

It worked!!! It said the patch ended unexpectedly, but it still
patched, and Perl is installed!

Just a question though, I set the prefix to /home/.bazooka/dawliam/
bin/
thinking that it would then be /home/.bazooka/dawliam/bin/perl,
but instead, it is /home/.bazooka/dawliam/bin/bin/perl.
Is it possible to shift it, and not have to remake or reinstall the
CPAN packages I installed?

 

[dawmail333]

It applied when it left here (I checked), so your newsreader made a mess
of it somehow.

Sorry, I fixed this problem as well.  I have hit another one:

make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.10.0/ext/
Digest/SHA'

        Making Encode (dynamic)
opendir(../../lib/../../../..): Permission denied at ../../lib/
ExtUtils/MakeMake
r.pm line 182

OK, this is getting silly... one more try, then I'm giving up .

Ben

--- lib/Cwd.pm  Tue Dec 18 10:47:07 2007
+++ lib/Cwd.pm.cwd      Thu Jan 24 12:33:29 2008
@@ -501,6 +501,11 @@
 sub _perl_abs_path
 {
     my $start = @_ ? shift : '.';
+
+    # this just returns a path down from /, without attempting to
+    # resolve .. or symlinks. It *may* be sufficient to build perl.
+    return $start =~ m!^/! ? $start : cwd() . '/' . $start;
+
     my($dotdots, $cwd, @pst, @cst, $dir, @tst);

     unless (@cst = stat( $start ))

Oh great, I can't seem to install some modules. Considering there is
an earlier version of perl on the system, what special configuration
do I need to do?

 

[dawmail333]

It applied when it left here (I checked), so your newsreader made a mess
of it somehow.

Sorry, I fixed this problem as well.  I have hit another one:

make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/.bazooka/dawliam/perl-5.10.0/ext/
Digest/SHA'

        Making Encode (dynamic)
opendir(../../lib/../../../..): Permission denied at ../../lib/
ExtUtils/MakeMake
r.pm line 182

OK, this is getting silly... one more try, then I'm giving up .

Ben

--- lib/Cwd.pm  Tue Dec 18 10:47:07 2007
+++ lib/Cwd.pm.cwd      Thu Jan 24 12:33:29 2008
@@ -501,6 +501,11 @@
 sub _perl_abs_path
 {
     my $start = @_ ? shift : '.';
+
+    # this just returns a path down from /, without attempting to
+    # resolve .. or symlinks. It *may* be sufficient to build perl.
+    return $start =~ m!^/! ? $start : cwd() . '/' . $start;
+
     my($dotdots, $cwd, @pst, @cst, $dir, @tst);

     unless (@cst = stat( $start ))

It worked! I installed perl! Now, the trick is, what configuration
do I need to install modules? There is another version of perl which
I can't install modules to, so can you tell me what configuration I
need?