Confused

[Jim Scott]

As a total novice at creating a website I started with MS Publisher. When I
got my new pc, it came with Frontpage 2003 and I created a site which
eventually rendered in all the main browsers.
I asked a question here and was harangued by some of you for using FP
because of its wonky markup etc. I was advised not to use Javascript, or
frames and got into no end of trouble for using forms as links.

Being easily led/advised I rebuilt the whole site without using any of the
above. It looks no better or worse to me and as far as I can tell runs no
faster and takes up no significantly smaller webspace.

Now I want to modify the site to display my various photo galleries by
having a scrollable pane of thumbnails on the left/top/bottom of the screen
with the enlarged picture in the remaining part of the screen. I know I
could do this in an hour with FP using frames.

Q.1 Was I hasty to abandon FP since I had it anyhow?
Q.2 Why no Javascript?
Q.3 Why no frames?
Q.4 Is there a way of achieving my goal without frames?

 

[David Dorward]

Now I want to modify the site to display my various photo galleries by
having a scrollable pane of thumbnails on the left/top/bottom of the
screen with the enlarged picture in the remaining part of the screen. I
know I could do this in an hour with FP using frames.

Q.1 Was I hasty to abandon FP since I had it anyhow?
No.

Q.2 Why no Javascript?

There is nothing wrong with using JavaScript, its depending on JavaScript
that is a problem. Many visitors have it turned off including GoogleBot
(considered by many to be the most important visitor).

Q.3 Why no frames?
http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?Problems_with_using_frames

Q.4 Is there a way of achieving my goal without frames?

http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/visufx.html#propdef-overflow

 

[Nico Schuyt]

Now I want to modify the site to display my various photo galleries by
having a scrollable pane of thumbnails on the left/top/bottom of the
screen with the enlarged picture in the remaining part of the screen.
I know I could do this in an hour with FP using frames.

Q.1 Was I hasty to abandon FP since I had it anyhow?

Yes. Nothing wrong with FP when used properly

Q.2 Why no Javascript?

Like David said, no problem as long as primary functions like navigations
are not involved.

Q.3 Why no frames?

Problems like:
orphaned pages (pages without menu)
difficult to bookmark
Impossible to refer to a certain page

Q.4 Is there a way of achieving my goal without frames?

I tried to do it with divs and property overflow: auto. The result was not
so good because thumbnails were jumping around when clicked. It can be
solved by using JS to reposition the thumbnails. Quite complex and there
were all kinds of bugs with the poorly supported overflow property.
Better (if you know some php): http://www.porjes.com/butterflies/
Disadvantage: complex and only a limited number of thumbnails.
I think a frame for a photo gallery is acceptable

 

[David Dorward]

Yes. Nothing wrong with FP when used properly

To use it properly you need to know how the underlying technologies work.
Its almost certainly best to learn them separately from the foibles of
Frontpage.

Like David said, no problem as long as primary functions like navigations
are not involved.

JavaScript can be used for primary functions, it just needs to fall back to
something sensible.

difficult to bookmark
Impossible to refer to a certain page

I think a frame for a photo gallery is acceptable

Oh I like that image! I'll bookmark it. Then I'll send a link to my friend.
Ooops.

 

[Jim Scott]

Yes. Nothing wrong with FP when used properly

Can you define what I should NOT attempt to do with FP?(I know not to use
WordArt. That's what got me to this point ?)

 

[Nico Schuyt]

Nico Schuyt wrote:

JavaScript can be used for primary functions, it just needs to fall
back to something sensible.

That's what I meant to say. Thanks for correcting me

Oh I like that image! I'll bookmark it. Then I'll send a link to my
friend. Ooops.

Hehehe, every decision in life is based on balancing positive and negative
arguments I think the frame solution has more positive than negative
properties.
Not ideal, but no better solution found so far.

 

[Nico Schuyt]

Can you define what I should NOT attempt to do with FP?

No HTML markup in WYSIWYG. Create a stylesheet and link that to the page. In
FP: select the text and apply the style (the drop down box starting with
'normal' left on top).
Use FP for things like
prototyping (a quick and dirty basis for a new site)
spell checking,
conversion of text to list and vice versa,
creating a table out of plain text
adding pictures and resize to get a first impression (resize later in
picture editor)
adding links
creating frames :0
Not ideal as editor, but I didn't find a better one.

 

[Jim Scott]

No HTML markup in WYSIWYG. Create a stylesheet and link that to the page. In
FP: select the text and apply the style (the drop down box starting with
'normal' left on top).
Use FP for things like
prototyping (a quick and dirty basis for a new site)
spell checking,
conversion of text to list and vice versa,
creating a table out of plain text
adding pictures and resize to get a first impression (resize later in
picture editor)
adding links
creating frames :0
Not ideal as editor, but I didn't find a better one.

Thanks Nico.
I can do all that, except frames, with Nvu (sister of Firefox) and it's all
valid. I think I'll stay with that.
I can set up frames with Notepad. What I could get FP to do automatically
that I cannot figure out manually, is to click on a thumbnail in one frame
and get the linked html to open in the other. Can you help?

 

[Toby Inkster]

http://freespace.virgin.net/mr.jimscott/

Pretty: http://examples.tobyinkster.co.uk/mr.jimscott/index

 

[Lauri Raittila]

And if I have 1024*768 display, images are 800*600 and I can't see them
fully because of frame... is it nice? Images in galleries take lots of
space. Thus is even more important to allow people to use their browser
window fully.

Yet to see a framed image gallery that makes any sence.

 

[Andy Dingley]

Q.4 Is there a way of achieving my goal without frames?

Download and install one of the many free image gallery setups. No
coding necessary.

 

[Travis Newbury]

And if I have 1024*768 display, images are 800*600 and I can't see them
fully because of frame... is it nice? Images in galleries take lots of
space. Thus is even more important to allow people to use their browser
window fully.
Yet to see a framed image gallery that makes any sence.

Sorry to interrupt another "but I can't see it" thread but, the thing I
find the funniest in this group is that if I happen to run upon a site
that does not look exactly right on my browser, I simply do what I need
to to make it look right. Sometimes I increase the font size, sometimes
I scroll a little, sometimes I change my browser size, sometimes I even
open IE if I have to because of needed active X functionality.

Sure I may not like the fact that I have to do something, but in the
grand scheme of things, who gives a poop? It did not kill me. I am not
so anal as to say "How dare they make me do something. I am leaving and
never coming back." Do any of you really enjoy browsing or is
complaining about it the part that makes it fun?

(This is not to say I don't agree with what Lauri said, only that I
don't put anywhere near the importance on it as others seem to on being
slightly inconvenienced)

Now back to our regularly scheduled program...

Oh yea, 48 years old and I got my first earring (left is right right is
wrong for a straight guy) in Myrtle Beach... Living the dream.....

 

[Blinky the Shark]

Oh yea, 48 years old and I got my first earring (left is right right is
wrong for a straight guy) in Myrtle Beach... Living the dream.....

Right ear and straight male here. No problem.

At 57, I doubt I'll ever get the other one pierced...

 

[Travis Newbury]

Right ear and straight male here. No problem.
At 57, I doubt I'll ever get the other one pierced...

My 14 year old daughter and I were walking on the boardwalk and I asked
her what she wanted to do. She said "Let's get a piercing" I thought
for a second and said "ok" she was shocked, and back at the hotel room,
immediately on AOL-IM telling her friends how "cool" her dad was. It
was worth it.

But I agree, the other ear will stay a virgin...

 

[Blinky the Shark]

Blinky the Shark wrote:

My 14 year old daughter and I were walking on the boardwalk and I
asked her what she wanted to do. She said "Let's get a piercing" I
thought for a second and said "ok" she was shocked, and back at the
hotel room, immediately on AOL-IM telling her friends how "cool" her
dad was. It was worth it.

At pretty close to that age (13 or 14), my daughter asked when I was
going to get the other one pierced. You've got an easy one. Keep her.

 

[kchayka]

Sorry to interrupt another "but I can't see it" thread but, the thing I
find the funniest in this group is that if I happen to run upon a site
that does not look exactly right on my browser, I simply do what I need
to to make it look right. Sometimes I increase the font size, sometimes
I scroll a little, sometimes I change my browser size,

Hey, aren't you the one who was whining in another thread about flexible
layouts because you always use full-size windows?

 

[Nico Schuyt]

For pages like the threads in Google groups too.

And if I have 1024*768 display, images are 800*600 and I can't see
them fully because of frame... is it nice?

No. But one shouldn't use such large pictures.

Images in galleries take
lots of space.

Images take always and everywhere lots of space.

Thus is even more important to allow people to use
their browser window fully.

An average website has a menu column on the left or on top taking 20-30% of
the screen. No difference compared with a frame for the thumbs.

Yet to see a framed image gallery that makes any sence.

Yet to see an alternative with a better balance of positive and negative
properties.

 

[Nico Schuyt]

Nico Schuyt wrote:

I can do all that, except frames, with Nvu (sister of Firefox) and
it's all valid. I think I'll stay with that.

Just downloaded the latest version (0.9 for Win). Very promising.
Seems to have some bugs though:
- I can't specify ";" as delimiter in the conversion of text to tables
- After applying a class to a paragraph and pressing the Enter key, the
class is duplicated in the new paragraph
- In 'Preferences' chosen for 'CSS instead of HTML'. When creating a two
row/two column table however I had to remove all the HTML-attributes in the
dialogue. Result:
<table style="text-align: left; width: 100%;" border="1">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td align="undefined"
valign="undefined"></td>
<td align="undefined"
valign="undefined"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="undefined"
valign="undefined"></td>
<td align="undefined"
valign="undefined"></td>
</tr>
</tbody>

I can set up frames with Notepad.

I can set up *everything* in Notepad

What I could get FP to do
automatically that I cannot figure out manually, is to click on a
thumbnail in one frame and get the linked html to open in the other.
Can you help?

Use the target attribute:
<base target="xxx"> in the head section
or <a href="start.htm" target="xxx">
Replace xxx with the name of the target frame

 

[Jim Scott]

Right ear and straight male here. No problem.

At 57, I doubt I'll ever get the other one pierced...

Me too got one the day *before* I retired.
It make the final prizegiving day in the school I left, go with a swing )

 

[Travis Newbury]

Me too got one the day *before* I retired.
It make the final prizegiving day in the school I left, go with a swing )

We are rebels!