Do I have to use frames?

[Mark]

Hi group,

I am building a website around a java applet that displays
threedimensional objects. The website will contain several pages.
Visitors can choose links on these pages to load and display different
objects in the applet.
At the moment the applet is embedded in every page, so the applet has
to be reloaded every time the user switches to another page. I would
like to avoid this but the only working solution I have found so far,
is to use frames.
I know we all like frames a lot, still I wonder if there is another
way to do this. I have tried to put the applet in a page (or popup
window) of it's own, but I can't pass information from other pages to
the applet page, can I?
I am not (yet) very familiar with php and the likes, but I will use it
if this is the way to go.

TIA,

Mark.

 

[Toby A Inkster]

I am building a website around a java applet that displays
threedimensional objects. The website will contain several pages.
Visitors can choose links on these pages to load and display different
objects in the applet.

The proper solution would be to move the links from the HTML into the Java
applet itself, so you only ever use the one page, bypassing the issue of
frames entirely.

 

[brucie]

I am building a website around a java applet

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/evaluation/news/jre.asp

 

[Mark]

Good idea, but in my case this is not a practical solution. I will
have quite a lot of links and accompanying text, and a relatively
small applet. Browsing would become very awkward.

Mark.

 

[Mark]

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/evaluation/news/jre.asp

mmm yes I am aware of Microsofts doings with java. Users of WinXP and
later versions will have to download Sun's VM to view my page. I don't
like that at all, but I don't think there is an alternative to Java
for my project (except maybe VRML or portning to .net :-(
How else would you display three-dimensional objects rendered
realtime on the internet?

Mark.

 

[Whitecrest]

How else would you display three-dimensional objects rendered
realtime on the internet?

Flash?

 

[brucie]

mmm yes I am aware of Microsofts doings with java. Users of WinXP and
later versions will have to download Sun's VM to view my page.

sun java on XP is really crap. the CPU shoots up to 100%. the java app
itself is slow and everything else slows to a crawl.

How else would you display three-dimensional objects rendered
realtime on the internet?

curl
http://www.curl.com/html/

 

[Mark]

sun java on XP is really crap. the CPU shoots up to 100%. the java app
itself is slow and everything else slows to a crawl.

I use Win2000, with both the Sun and the MS virtual machine the
performance is good. The MS VM loads faster though. I have done some
tests on Windows XP, the performance was comparable.

curl
http://www.curl.com/html/

this looks interesting... thanks.

Mark.

 

[brucie]

I use Win2000, with both the Sun and the MS virtual machine the
performance is good. The MS VM loads faster though. I have done some
tests on Windows XP, the performance was comparable.

perhaps its the java app itself. using Arachnophilia5+ there is at
least a second delay between anything happening. its really hard to
type with a 1+ second delay between each letter appearing. pressing
buttons/selecting menu options has the same problem.

visual route7+ takes forever to start and shutdown. if too much is
happening in the background it just hangs.

one of my internet banking people use a java app. takes at least half
an hour to download (about 10 minutes with MSVM) and about 5 minutes
to update between selections. (instant with MSVM)

xp pro. dual athlon. 2gb ram.

 

[Mark]

perhaps its the java app itself. using Arachnophilia5+ there is at
least a second delay between anything happening. its really hard to
type with a 1+ second delay between each letter appearing. pressing
buttons/selecting menu options has the same problem.

visual route7+ takes forever to start and shutdown. if too much is
happening in the background it just hangs.

one of my internet banking people use a java app. takes at least half
an hour to download (about 10 minutes with MSVM) and about 5 minutes
to update between selections. (instant with MSVM)

xp pro. dual athlon. 2gb ram.

With my applet there is a difference in loading times, and loading an
applet with both VM's takes time, and can get slow when other
applications are running. That's why I asked my question in the first
place... and why I am considering frames ;-)
I did not know there could be such a difference in performance between
the Sun and MS VM's.... I will have to do a lot more testing.

Mark.

 

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

Flash?

Would have been my first choice, too, probably.

 

[Mark]

Would have been my first choice, too, probably.

Can you tell me why? I have never done anything in Flash, but I have
never seen 3D scenes made in Flash.

Mark.

 

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

Can you tell me why? I have never done anything in Flash, but I have
never seen 3D scenes made in Flash.

Well, I don't know exactly what the three-dimensional objects are
supposed to be for, but you can incorporate 3D rendered elements and
even do realtime rendering, such as letting a user turn an object and
let him view it from various sides, in Flash. The reason it would be my
first choice -- I don't know if it would be the best choice, depending
on what you want to achieve it might not -- is that 3D rendered Flash
files are fairly small (very important on the Web) and easily
incorporated in the design of a page.
Last but not least, I also don't know nearly enough about Java to do
realtime rendering in Java myself, so I'd see if I can do it in Flash first.

 

[Mark]

Well, I don't know exactly what the three-dimensional objects are
supposed to be for, but you can incorporate 3D rendered elements and
even do realtime rendering, such as letting a user turn an object and
let him view it from various sides, in Flash. The reason it would be my
first choice -- I don't know if it would be the best choice, depending
on what you want to achieve it might not -- is that 3D rendered Flash
files are fairly small (very important on the Web) and easily
incorporated in the design of a page.
Last but not least, I also don't know nearly enough about Java to do
realtime rendering in Java myself, so I'd see if I can do it in Flash first.

These 3D objects are crystals .You can see what I'm working on on
www.smorf.nl. My page is still under construction of course, in fact I
only put it up for testing purposes.
I chose java because it has all the power of a general programming
language... also I planned to use only standard technologies, except
for the java applet of course (pure html/css) without the need for
additional downloads.
But at this moment I'm also using javascript, I will probably have to
use frames and with the MS/java quarrels going on, some of my users
will have to download a java VM. Oh well.
BTW I/m using a third party java API to do the 3D rendering part.

cheers, Mark.

 

[Whitecrest]

Can you tell me why? I have never done anything in Flash, but I have
never seen 3D scenes made in Flash.

I have never personally done any, but you have complete control over
vector graphics, and image manipulation, using Actionacript (kind of
like Javascript with Objects)

Another reason to use Flash is that is is available on virtually every
computer that will visit your site.

Now depending on what you mean as real time. If you mean real time as in
the Flash object reads from a live data source (via some server side
scripting) then displays the data in graphical format is easily done
with flash alone (Many of the calculations for creating the graphics
would probably port pretty easily from Java)

Now if you mean real time as in you have an 3d image that has been pre
rendered that you have control over (like spinning a new car around in a
circle or something) Then I would probably go with a different program
to create the 3d image and just spin them with flash.

What exactly are you trying to use this for?

 

[Whitecrest]

These 3D objects are crystals .You can see what I'm working on on
www.smorf.nl. My page is still under construction of course, in fact I
only put it up for testing purposes.

Looking at your example, Flash would be an excellent choice.

Creating real-time 3D objects with Macromedia Flash MX dynamic drawing
tools:
http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/mx/flash/articles/flash_3d.html

 

[Mark]

Looking at your example, Flash would be an excellent choice.

Creating real-time 3D objects with Macromedia Flash MX dynamic drawing
tools:
http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/mx/flash/articles/flash_3d.html

Hi Whitecrest, thanks for the link. Very interesting. I've read the
article, I think it's possible to do my project in Flash, although I'm
not sure Flash would perform better then the java API i'm using. But I
would have to take a closer look of course. I'm a bit reluctant to
switch to a completely new technology (for me) so therewould have to
be a clear advantage... especially because I would have to by Flash MX
which sells for 600 dollar? But I will keep all this in mind.

cheers, mark.