Expert.C.Programming.pdf

R

Richard G. Riley

Did peter Van Der Linden decide to make his book public domain, or are
you aiding and abetting a thief?

Are you always such an anal idiot?

I googled up a link to the PDF. Anything else is assumptive. But since
you are so concerned, maybe you could collect a list of all the places
it is hosted and inform the authorities : I certainly dont have the
time nor the inclination to check the copyright issues of every
document I reference via the wonderful world of web.
 
R

Rod Pemberton

Richard G. Riley said:
Are you always such an anal idiot?

Yes, he is.

Sony Corp. v. Universal City Studios
"...use of a copyrighted work is noncommercial, defeating a fair use defense
requires 'proof either that the particular use is harmful, or that if it
should become widespread, it would adversely affect the potential market for
the copyrighted work.'"

Feist Publications, Inc. v. Rural Tel. Serv. Co
"The primary objective of copyright is not to reward the labor of authors,
but 'to promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts.' . . . To this end,
copyright assures authors the right to their original expression, but
encourages others to build freely upon the ideas and information conveyed by
a work."


Rod Pemberton
 
K

Keith Thompson

mai said:
wherefrom can I download it?

Please include your entire question in the body of your message; not
all newsreaders display the subject header in a convenient manner.

There is a published book by Peter van der Linden called _Expert C
Programming_. As far as I know, it's available only on paper. If
there are soft copies available, they're probably illegal.

If you want to read it, show some respect for the author; buy or
borrow a copy or check it out of a library.
 
A

Al Balmer

Are you always such an anal idiot?

I googled up a link to the PDF.

Which aided and abetted a thief.
Anything else is assumptive. But since
you are so concerned, maybe you could collect a list of all the places
it is hosted and inform the authorities :

No, thanks. I don't go around the neighborhood checking doors to see
if they're locked.
I certainly dont have the
time nor the inclination to check the copyright issues of every
document I reference via the wonderful world of web.
But you have the time and inclination to find illegal copies for
someone else? How public spirited. FYI, everything you see on the web
is copyrighted, unless expressly dedicated to the public domain.
 
K

Keith Thompson

Richard G. Riley said:
Are you always such an anal idiot?

I googled up a link to the PDF. Anything else is assumptive. But since
you are so concerned, maybe you could collect a list of all the places
it is hosted and inform the authorities : I certainly dont have the
time nor the inclination to check the copyright issues of every
document I reference via the wonderful world of web.

So you're aiding and abetting a thief because you didn't take the time
to investigate the origin of the document

Perhaps you weren't familiar with the book, and actually thought it
might be a legitimate public domain document. However, your question
above, "Are you always such an anal idiot?", leads me to suspect that
you just don't care.

I happen to own a copy of the book (on paper; I paid for it). I also
just downloaded a copy of the PDF file. It appears to be a copy of
the book, including the cover, but *not* including the title page or
any copyright notices.

If it were legitimate, it would presumably have a notice to that
effect. Since it doesn't, it seems likely that it was stolen. I've
just informed the publisher, Prentice Hall, of the existence of this
copy of the book. (No, I didn't mention you or the original poster,
just the site that's hosting the PDF file.)
 
J

Jordan Abel

Which aided and abetted a thief.


No, thanks. I don't go around the neighborhood checking doors to see
if they're locked.

But you have the time and inclination to find illegal copies for
someone else? How public spirited. FYI, everything you see on the web
is copyrighted, unless expressly dedicated to the public domain.

Yes, but most things you see on the web that aren't behind a credit card
login can be assumed to be free for viewing and download. You can hardly
fault him for not knowing that this in particular is not.

I didn't know the draft number for the most recent draft of the C
standard, so I just searched for "c99 pdf" [expecting to find a
perfectly legal draft], and stumbled across a copy of the published
standard that had been put up by mistake. I didn't realize what had
happened until, in browsing through it, I got to the back cover page
which stated the price and the number of pages that the price was based
on.
 
R

Rod Pemberton

Al Balmer said:
Which aided and abetted a thief.


No, thanks. I don't go around the neighborhood checking doors to see
if they're locked.

But you have the time and inclination to find illegal copies for
someone else? How public spirited. FYI, everything you see on the web
is copyrighted, unless expressly dedicated to the public domain.

"...everything you see on the web is copyrighted, unless expressly dedicated
to the public domain" is untrue. Everything that is within physical US
jurisdiction on the web is copyrighted by law. There are many places in the
world where US laws don't apply. You can "sign in" to libraries, e.g.,
Russian, online and access volumes of digital copyrighted material legally
just as if you entered the library by foot.


Rod Pemberton
 
C

Chris Hills

Rod Pemberton said:
"...everything you see on the web is copyrighted, unless expressly dedicated
to the public domain" is untrue.

Well *most* countries have a copyright law and it *usually* says
copyright is automatic and implicit. Most (but not all) countries have a
reciprocal agreement on copyright. So *most* things on the Internet
automatically fall under a copyright law.

However most counties have vehicle speed limits on the roads... likewise
there is nothing to stop anyone putting up some one else's copyright
work.
Everything that is within physical US
jurisdiction on the web is copyrighted by law.

But only US law which is irrelevant outside the physical area of the US.
However some things on web sites in the US may be illegal or breaking US
or someone else's copyright in the first place.

BTW The "generally accepted agreement" is that the law of the country
the server is in has jurisdiction no matter where the item is uploaded
from.

The problem is getting the country concerned to do something about it.
China and Russia are notoriously bad at co-operating.
There are many places in the
world where US laws don't apply.

Everywhere outside the US.... despite what the US military think :)
You can "sign in" to libraries, e.g.,
Russian, online and access volumes of digital copyrighted material legally
just as if you entered the library by foot.

There is as probably much copy righted material available illegally in
the US as anywhere else. (there is certainly more spam from the US than
anywhere else, Florida I think is the main hot spot.)

Just because there are laws does not mean that they are observed. It is
not helped by the indirect influence of FSF and GNU. They have created a
sort of climate where people expect things for free. Especially software
and documentation. It was not their intention hence the GPL but the
result is that people seem to expect books and SW for free. I once go
stung buying a book on open source only to discover 3 months later that
it was legally available as a PDF for free....
 
A

Al Balmer

"...everything you see on the web is copyrighted, unless expressly dedicated
to the public domain" is untrue. Everything that is within physical US
jurisdiction on the web is copyrighted by law. There are many places in the
world where US laws don't apply.

True, but there are few where the Berne Convention doesn't apply. I
didn't mention US law.
You can "sign in" to libraries, e.g.,
Russian, online and access volumes of digital copyrighted material legally
just as if you entered the library by foot.

I don't know of any such libraries which supply general literature
(although a couple of companies including Google are running into
legal problems trying to establish one.) However, I do know that
Russia is a signatory to the Berne Convention, as well as other
copyright treaties, and also has a bilateral copyright agreement with
the US.

I presume that you are a programmer. It may well be that you will
never produce software in other than a work for hire capacity, but if
you do, it would be wise to obtain a basic knowledge of copyright law.
 
M

Mark McIntyre

Are you always such an anal idiot?

do you need to insult people?
I googled up a link to the PDF. Anything else is assumptive.

On your part. Next time, engage your brain before posting, or at least
be sensible enough to check if you're abetting a crime.
: I certainly dont have the time nor the inclination

Extend this thought: would you also not have the inclination to check
if something you physically obtained was stolen? I suspect you would
since few of us much like the idea of being caught with hot goods.
to check the copyright issues of every
document I reference via the wonderful world of web.

Then you will come a cropper.
Mark McIntyre
 
R

Richard G. Riley

do you need to insult people?


On your part. Next time, engage your brain before posting, or at least
be sensible enough to check if you're abetting a crime.

Another one. *p*
 
M

Mark McIntyre

Yes, but most things you see on the web that aren't behind a credit card
login can be assumed to be free for viewing and download.

Can they? Does it say that somewhere in a legal document you have
access to? My garden furniture is in public fiew, not secured behind a
credit card login, does that mean someone can take it away? I think
there's a big assumption going on, and we all know what assumptions
make.
You can hardly
fault him for not knowing that this in particular is not.

Perhaps, but it would have been wiser to have suggested that the
publishers would be a good place to start. If it can be obtained
legally, they'll be able to help. If not, then...
Mark McIntyre
 
M

Mark McIntyre

But since
you are so concerned, maybe you could collect a list of all the places
it is hosted and inform the authorities :

Looks like you got your wish. See elsethread.
Mark McIntyre
 
J

Jordan Abel

Can they? Does it say that somewhere in a legal document you have
access to? My garden furniture is in public fiew, not secured behind a
credit card login, does that mean someone can take it away? I think
there's a big assumption going on, and we all know what assumptions
make.

Your garden furniture is not on the internet, and downloading is not
"taking" - your flimsy analogy aside, there _is_ an assumption by
default that if you go to a website you're allowed to look at it, your
browser is allowed to cache it in temporary internet files, etc. There
is even, i believe, a recent court decision recognizing the lack of a
robots.txt as permission for a search engine to cache/index it and
provide excerpts in search results. [Furthermore, I don't know your
jurisdiction's laws, but in many jurisdictions people are allowed to
take photographs of your garden furniture if it's in public view]
 
R

Rod Pemberton

Al Balmer said:
True, but there are few where the Berne Convention doesn't apply. I
didn't mention US law.


I don't know of any such libraries which supply general literature
(although a couple of companies including Google are running into
legal problems trying to establish one.) However, I do know that
Russia is a signatory to the Berne Convention, as well as other
copyright treaties, and also has a bilateral copyright agreement with
the US.

I presume that you are a programmer. It may well be that you will
never produce software in other than a work for hire capacity, but if
you do, it would be wise to obtain a basic knowledge of copyright law.

You're correct that I'm not a lawyer. My brother is a intellectual property
law attorney specializing in Internet law. He's worked with the state
attorney generals of a number states to draft internet related laws. He's
worked with or for Microsoft, Richard Stallman and his FSF, EPIC, ESRB and
many others. I've had numerous conversations with him on aspects of
copyright laws such as Public Domain versus "Copyleft", COPA, DMCA, 18
U.S.C. Section 2510, etc... Despite your continued insistence to the
contrary (on this and other threads), I seem to be better versed in this
area than you.


Rod Pemberton
 
A

Al Balmer

You're correct that I'm not a lawyer. My brother is a intellectual property
law attorney specializing in Internet law. He's worked with the state
attorney generals of a number states to draft internet related laws. He's
worked with or for Microsoft, Richard Stallman and his FSF, EPIC, ESRB and
many others. I've had numerous conversations with him on aspects of
copyright laws such as Public Domain versus "Copyleft", COPA, DMCA, 18
U.S.C. Section 2510, etc... Despite your continued insistence to the
contrary (on this and other threads), I seem to be better versed in this
area than you.
Then you have no excuse whatsoever for spouting nonsense on the
subject.
 

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