Fascism is coming to Internet

[Joan Miller]

*Sorry by this message off topic, but this is too important*

Fascism is coming fastly to Internet because is the only communication
way that governements (managed by the bank and multinationals) cann't
control

http://www.boingboing.net/2010/02/21/acta-internet-enforc.html

 

[D'Arcy J.M. Cain]

*Sorry by this message off topic, but this is too important*

Is it just me or has the spew from gmail on this list radically
increased in the last week? Anyone else considering blocking all gmail
posts to this list?

 

[Grant Edwards]

Is it just me or has the spew from gmail on this list radically
increased in the last week? Anyone else considering blocking all gmail
posts to this list?

I did that a long time ago for all of the Usenet groups I read
and all but one of the mailing lists I read.

 

[Grant Edwards]

I did that a long time ago for all of the Usenet groups I read
and all but one of the mailing lists I read.

Wait, I misread the posting. I block everything from
google.groups, not everything from gmail.

 

[D'Arcy J.M. Cain]

Wait, I misread the posting. I block everything from
google.groups, not everything from gmail.

Yes, I did that a long time ago as well. But now there seems to be
more and more actual spam coming from gmail.com itself. It may just be
a minor blip on the spam graph but I'm keeping my eye on it.

Most mailing lists that I am on are pretty good at filtering spam
before it gets to the list. The only spam I ever see on my NetBSD
lists are the ones that I moderate and I block them before anyone else
sees them. A little more pain for me in return for a lot less pain for
everyone else. I guess that's not possible on a list that is gatewayed
to UseNet like this one is.

Hmm. I wonder if all the spam is coming from the NG side. I'll have
to look at that. One of the reasons that I stopped reading UseNet over
ten years ago was because of the diminishinig S/N ratio. I have always
felt that it was a mistake to gateway this group.

 

[Joan Miller]

*Sorry by this message off topic, but this is too important*

Fascism is coming fastly to Internet because is the only communication
way that governements (managed by the bank and multinationals) cann't
control

http://www.boingboing.net/2010/02/21/acta-internet-enforc.html

This is something that affects to all programmers:

"This calls on all parties to ensure that "third party liability" (the
idea that ISPs, web-hosts, application developers, mobile carriers,
universities, apartment buildings, and other "third parties" to
infringement are sometimes liable for their users' copyright
infringements) is on the books in their countries. It doesn't spell
out what that liability should be, beyond "knowingly and materially
aiding" an infringement"

http://craphound.com/acta_digital_chapter-1.pdf

 

[Olof Bjarnason]

This is something that affects to all programmers:

"This calls on all parties to ensure that "third party liability" (the
idea that ISPs, web-hosts, application developers, mobile carriers,
universities, apartment buildings, and other "third parties" to
infringement are sometimes liable for their users' copyright
infringements) is on the books in their countries. It doesn't spell
out what that liability should be, beyond "knowingly and materially
aiding" an infringement"

http://craphound.com/acta_digital_chapter-1.pdf

<politics>

Even if this is "Off Topic" (which I think it really isn't in any open
source / free software-oriented mailing list), I want to agree with
Joan.

ACTA is a *real* problem that we must fend politically. Here is a blog
post I wrote about the problem with making ISPs liable for what their
users communicate:

http://translate.google.com/transla...f=1&u=http://olofb.wordpress.com/&sl=sv&tl=en
(sorry for the bad quality google translation -- this is an important topic!)

Note the name of the important principle: "Mere conduit".

</politics>

 

[D'Arcy J.M. Cain]

Even if this is "Off Topic" (which I think it really isn't in any open
source / free software-oriented mailing list), I want to agree with
Joan.

It isn't about the Python programming language so it is off topic. So
what if some members have an interest? We have interest in a lot of
things. We all have interest in the hardware that our programs run on
but questions about hardware are also off topic.

Perhaps you don't quite grasp the point of topical discussion groups.
They are a way of letting individuals decide for themselves what kind
of discussions they want to be involved in. By spamming the group this
way you take away that freedom of choice. It's ironic when it is done
in the name of freedom.

 

[Daniel Fetchinson]

Is it just me or has the spew from gmail on this list radically

Yes, I did that a long time ago as well. But now there seems to be
more and more actual spam coming from gmail.com itself. It may just be
a minor blip on the spam graph but I'm keeping my eye on it.

Most mailing lists that I am on are pretty good at filtering spam
before it gets to the list. The only spam I ever see on my NetBSD
lists are the ones that I moderate and I block them before anyone else
sees them. A little more pain for me in return for a lot less pain for
everyone else. I guess that's not possible on a list that is gatewayed
to UseNet like this one is.

Hmm. I wonder if all the spam is coming from the NG side. I'll have
to look at that. One of the reasons that I stopped reading UseNet over
ten years ago was because of the diminishinig S/N ratio. I have always
felt that it was a mistake to gateway this group.

And this has to do with python programming in what way?

You, sir, are incredibly funny

Just 5 minutes ago you declared in a nearby thread that

It isn't about the Python programming language so it is off topic. So
what if some members have an interest? We have interest in a lot of
things. We all have interest in the hardware that our programs run on
but questions about hardware are also off topic.

Perhaps you don't quite grasp the point of topical discussion groups.
They are a way of letting individuals decide for themselves what kind
of discussions they want to be involved in. By spamming the group this
way you take away that freedom of choice. It's ironic when it is done
in the name of freedom.

Touche!

Cheers,
Daniel

 

[D'Arcy J.M. Cain]

And this has to do with python programming in what way?

Are you new? Meta discussions about lists are generally considered
on-topic for the list.

You, sir, are incredibly funny

Yes, I am. That however is NOT on topic.

And just to bring this back on topic, I did do a test and found that
splitting my mailbox between Python mailing list messages and Python
newsgroup messages did not indicate that that was a good barometer of
spaminess. There are also quite a few decent posts from gmail.com so
blocking by that domain isn't going to be the problem solver either.

 

[Ned Deily]

And just to bring this back on topic, I did do a test and found that
splitting my mailbox between Python mailing list messages and Python
newsgroup messages did not indicate that that was a good barometer of
spaminess. There are also quite a few decent posts from gmail.com so
blocking by that domain isn't going to be the problem solver either.

Try following the list using gmane (either via NNTP, RSS, or the web).
gmane does a pretty good job of filtering the spam.

http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general

 

[Aahz]

Is it just me or has the spew from gmail on this list radically
increased in the last week? Anyone else considering blocking all gmail
posts to this list?

Joan Miller is a regular poster; this is off-topic, but it's not spam.
--
Aahz ([email protected]) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer

 

[Lie Ryan]

Joan Miller is a regular poster; this is off-topic, but it's not spam.

Does being a regular poster exempts you from having your post considered
as spam? That's an
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem#Inverse_ad_hominem.

 

[Steven D'Aprano]

And this has to do with python programming in what way?

I think the question of whether or not comp.lang.python is being spammed,
and if so, what we can do about it, is a good question to raise on
comp.lang.python.

Where else do you think it should be discussed?

 

[Lie Ryan]

I think the question of whether or not comp.lang.python is being spammed,
and if so, what we can do about it, is a good question to raise on
comp.lang.python.

Where else do you think it should be discussed?

comp.lang.python.spam_prevention_discussion

 

[Robert Kern]

comp.lang.python.spam_prevention_discussion

Which doesn't exist and never will. Sorry, but meta-discussions about the group
are typically on-topic for all groups with some few exceptions (e.g.
non-discussion, binary-only groups with associated .d groups, for instance).

--
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
an underlying truth."
-- Umberto Eco

 

[Grant Edwards]

Which doesn't exist and never will. Sorry, but
meta-discussions about the group are typically on-topic for
all groups with some few exceptions (e.g. non-discussion,
binary-only groups with associated .d groups, for instance).

Since now we are discussing meta-discussions, is this now a
meta-meta-discussion?

 

[Joan Miller]

It isn't about the Python programming language so it is off topic.  So
what if some members have an interest?  We have interest in a lot of
things.  We all have interest in the hardware that our programs run on
but questions about hardware are also off topic.

Perhaps you don't quite grasp the point of topical discussion groups.
They are a way of letting individuals decide for themselves what kind
of discussions they want to be involved in.  By spamming the group this
way you take away that freedom of choice.  It's ironic when it is done
in the name of freedom.

--

To avoid the spam, I reccomend a mailing list site as librelist:

http://librelist.com/index.html

problem -> reaction -> solution

 

[Robert Kern]

Since now we are discussing meta-discussions, is this now a
meta-meta-discussion?

If you like, but I tend to interpret "meta-" as idempotent. It's easier on my
aspirin budget.

--
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
an underlying truth."
-- Umberto Eco

 

[Aahz]

Non sequitur. Spam is spam, not by who authors or posts it, but by its
distribution (to many people, e.g. via a forum like this one) and its
content (off-topic and unsolicited).

The message is important, its poster is a regular here; that doesn't
stop the message being spam when posted here.

That seems to miss the point to some extent. If I post my recipe for
spinach lasagne here, is that spam? I don't think many people would call
it spam, just an off-topic post. From my POV, spam is defined a bit more
narrowly.
--
Aahz ([email protected]) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer