firefox, MP3, & wim media player

[...D.]

I run a small 11 KB MP3 file of arnold saying "hasta la vista baby" on the
logout page (php page) of an online game I run (Blacknova traders). I am
just wondering why when in firefox, it will not play it (I have Windows
Media Player selected to play MP3s, WAVs , and MIDI files).

Is this microsoft purposely doing this or what is it?

It is a simple HTML code used: <bgsound src="hasta.mp3" />

Of course I know in several cases Firefox and netscape have special needs
in coding for scripts. Like a javascript slideshow I use on a page. So is
there a special little way firefox needs inline sound coded perhaps?

No darn wonder firefox is so security resistent - it cannot do half of the
stuff it should.. Firefox - conform, dammit!!. even just placing a
day/date/month javascript on a page and firefox displays a line lower down
than IE. does. Same with the slideshow. even with the whole added script
just for it, it still displays the slide show window lower down on the
page than I.E,. crap firefox... what a hassle..

...D.

 

[Oli Filth]

I run a small 11 KB MP3 file of arnold saying "hasta la vista baby" on the
logout page (php page) of an online game I run (Blacknova traders). I am
just wondering why when in firefox, it will not play it (I have Windows
Media Player selected to play MP3s, WAVs , and MIDI files).

Is this microsoft purposely doing this or what is it?

It is a simple HTML code used: <bgsound src="hasta.mp3" />

Of course I know in several cases Firefox and netscape have special needs
in coding for scripts. Like a javascript slideshow I use on a page. So is
there a special little way firefox needs inline sound coded perhaps?

No darn wonder firefox is so security resistent - it cannot do half of the
stuff it should..

No, it's the other way round. IE shouldn't do half the stuff it does,
that's why it's security-flawed.

Firefox - conform, dammit!!

Firefox *does* conform, on the whole. That's the point.

 

[Mark Parnell]

Is this microsoft purposely doing this or what is it?

Pretty much. They make up whatever they like and call it HTML.

It is a simple HTML code used: <bgsound src="hasta.mp3" />

Except that a) That's not HTML. The <bgsound> element does not appear in
any published version of HTML.

Of course I know in several cases Firefox and netscape have special needs
in coding for scripts.

You mean they need you to do it properly?

No darn wonder firefox is so security resistent - it cannot do half of the
stuff it should..

Like what?

Firefox - conform, dammit!!.

It conforms a lot closer to any of the standards than IE does.

even just placing a
day/date/month javascript on a page and firefox displays a line lower down
than IE. does. Same with the slideshow. even with the whole added script
just for it, it still displays the slide show window lower down on the
page than I.E,.

If Firefox displays a page differently to IE, chances are it's IE that's
wrong. Generally it means that your code is written badly, and IE just
happens to guess what you want. Firefox on the other hand, actually does
what you tell it to. If you don't like it, you need to fix your code.

crap firefox... what a hassle..

Let me make a suggestion.

Forget IE. Use Firefox as your primary testing browser. Write your code.
Include a doctype that triggers "Standards Mode" in all browsers.
Validate your (X)HTML and CSS. Once you have it working correctly in
Firefox, and it all validates, test it in Opera (chances are it will
work fine). Then test in other browsers (Konqueror, Safari, older
versions of all of the above, etc.), adding hacks if necessary, then
testing in Firefox and Opera to make sure hacks haven't caused any
problems in them. Then, and only then, test in IE, and add any hacks you
need to so that IE will display it correctly. Once that is done, test in
all the other browsers again to make sure the hacks haven't broken
anything in them.

Once you have done the above, you can think about adding optional
extras, such as Javascript. Again, test in Firefox, then Opera, then
other browsers, and finally IE. As long as you write your Javascript
according to the published specifications, IE should have no problems if
it works in the other browsers.

 

[Roy Schestowitz]

I run a small 11 KB MP3 file of arnold saying "hasta la vista baby" on the
logout page (php page) of an online game I run (Blacknova traders). I am
just wondering why when in firefox, it will not play it (I have Windows
Media Player selected to play MP3s, WAVs , and MIDI files).

Stop right there...

Is this microsoft purposely doing this or what is it?

This is M¥¢ro$o£t's attempt to invoke their own self-made COM objects. This
is deprecated. It is a characteristic of Web sites from the late 90's.

It is a simple HTML code used: <bgsound src="hasta.mp3" />

Of course I know in several cases Firefox and netscape have special needs
in coding for scripts. Like a javascript slideshow I use on a page. So is
there a special little way firefox needs inline sound coded perhaps?

Firefox or not Firefox, there are other factors to consider like the
operating system. Don't forget that embedded videos might be playable under
Windows, but not under Linux, for example. Some users like me will spit at
the ground, steer away from your page and never return to it again if they
see this practice. It is an obedience to M¥¢ro$o£t's attempts to steal (and
own) the Internet while locking other users out.

No darn wonder firefox is so security resistent - it cannot do half of the
stuff it should.. Firefox - conform, dammit!!. even just placing a
day/date/month javascript on a page and firefox displays a line lower down
than IE. does. Same with the slideshow. even with the whole added script
just for it, it still displays the slide show window lower down on the
page than I.E,. crap firefox... what a hassle..

Sadly, many pages are still designed by inexperienced people who use IE and
design pages for IE. They test it under IE and never bother complying with
standards. This trend is changing though.

Roy

 

[Jukka K. Korpela]

Except that a) That's not HTML. The <bgsound> element does not
appear in any published version of HTML.
b) It's XHTML syntax, even if the <bgsound> element did exist.
c) It's a bad idea, anyway.

d) A background sound can be added using <embed> too, and this
way has wider browser support, though <embed> isn't in any
published version either. Of course, since c) is almost
always true, <bgsound> is actually less harmful _except_
in the extremely rare cases where it makes sense to use
an automatic background sound.

(Well, maybe not _extremely_ rare. If you are using HTML to create a
presentation to be shown in a particular occasion, not a Web page,
then autostarting some music might be suitable.)

 

[Travis Newbury]

No, it's the other way round. IE shouldn't do half the stuff it does,
that's why it's security-flawed.

I am pretty sure the bgsound is not a huge security issue. IE wanted to
innovate, to let the user do something. The innovation (for what ever
reason) did not make it into the standards. So be it. No one else
adopted. But I do not fault IE for trying. I hope they (and wish
others) would continue to try new things. Innovation in general is
ALWAYS a good thing. An individual innovation, may not be.

 

[Travis Newbury]

It is an obedience to M¥¢ro$o£t's attempts to steal (and
own) the Internet while locking other users out.

And they are also mutilating cattle...

 

[Lachlan Hunt]

I run a small 11 KB MP3 file...

It is a simple HTML code used: <bgsound src="hasta.mp3" />

Use this somewhere within the body of your document. It may or may not
play automatically – it all depends on the user agent settings.

<object type="audio/mpeg" data="hasta.mp3">
<p>You should insert some useful alternate content in here. A link to
<a href="hasta.mp3">hasta.mp3</a> at the very least, but some
textual content that serves the *same purpose* as the audio file
would be better.</p>
</object>

http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/objects.html#edef-OBJECT

As an author, you should have no control over whether some audio file
plays automatically when it loads, which the non-standard and
user-hostile bgsound element automatically does. AFAIK, there's also no
way to stop an audio file playing as a result of the bgsound element,
short of the user turning off their speakers or leaving your site.

Using <object> should, depending on the user's preferences and user
agent support, present an audio player interface, such as an embedded
Windows Media player, Winamp, Real Player, Quick Time, etc. or even
launch the player externally, from which the user may choose to play the
audio file or not. As an author, you also have no control over which
media player is used, nor which media players are even installed on the
user's system, so don't even try.

 

[Spartanicus]

Using <object> should, depending on the user's preferences and user
agent support, present an audio player interface, such as an embedded
Windows Media player, Winamp

Winamp is not embeddable (v2).

, Real Player, Quick Time, etc. or even
launch the player externally

The object elements attempts to embed, it will never launch a stand
alone player.

As an author, you also have no control over which
media player is used, nor which media players are even installed on the
user's system, so don't even try.

Another fundamental objection against embedding audio and/or video is
that it attempts to launch a mediaplayer onto the users system before
they have elected to play the media.
http://www.spartanicus.utvinternet.ie/embed.htm#audiovideo

 

[Oli Filth]

I am pretty sure the bgsound is not a huge security issue. IE wanted to
innovate, to let the user do something. The innovation (for what ever
reason) did not make it into the standards. So be it. No one else
adopted. But I do not fault IE for trying. I hope they (and wish
others) would continue to try new things. Innovation in general is
ALWAYS a good thing. An individual innovation, may not be.

I was talking about IE in general, not about the <bgsound> in
particular, as the OP was slagging off Firefox:

No darn wonder firefox is so security resistent - it cannot do half of
the stuff it should.."

Which is rather a naive way of looking at things.

 

[Travis Newbury]

I was talking about IE in general, not about the <bgsound> in
particular, as the OP was slagging off Firefox:

I would choose FF over IE in a heart beat (I did in fact). I just get
tired of hearing how evil MS is. MS is not perfect, but they are not
evil either. Nuff said, this topic can do nothing but turn into a
yelling match. (And I agree bgsound was a dumb inovation)

 

[Lachlan Hunt]

Winamp is not embeddable (v2).

So what? I included it as an example of a media player that a browser
*may* use. I didn't care whether or not it is embeddable, if it's the
user's preferred media player, the browser should be able to launch it
externally. Whether or not that is possible with current
implementations is beside the point, and out of the scope of HTML.

The object elements attempts to embed, it will never launch a stand
alone player.

Maybe for your browsers, but for some reason my tests with IE did
attempt to embed media player (it displaed a Windows Media control which
couldn't do anything, though I don't know why), but ended up launching
the player externally when clicked it. It may have something to do with
some settings I've fiddled with in the past, but at this stage I don't
know what causes it. However, it does prove your statement to be incorrect.

What about browsers like Lynx? That can't embed a media player like the
common GUI browsers can. It would have to launch the player externally.
However, again, I don't know if the current implementation actually
does that, but it is theoretically possible and such implementation
details are out of the scope of HTML authoring anyway.

Another fundamental objection against embedding audio and/or video is
that it attempts to launch a mediaplayer onto the users system before
they have elected to play the media.
http://www.spartanicus.utvinternet.ie/embed.htm#audiovideo

That is also an implementation detail that user agent vendors should
deal with, not HTML authors. Of course, I agree that authors should
consider current practical limitations like that when developing web sites.

 

[Spartanicus]

Maybe for your browsers, but for some reason my tests with IE did
attempt to embed media player (it displaed a Windows Media control which
couldn't do anything, though I don't know why), but ended up launching
the player externally when clicked it. It may have something to do with
some settings I've fiddled with in the past, but at this stage I don't
know what causes it. However, it does prove your statement to be incorrect.

It launched as a result of a user action, not automatically.

What about browsers like Lynx? That can't embed a media player like the
common GUI browsers can. It would have to launch the player externally.

It won't, instead it will attempt to display the content of the object
elements as per design. A properly authored page has a link to the media
as the content of the element, which the user then clicks, which
launches the player if properly configured.

 

[Richard Brooks]

I run a small 11 KB MP3 file of arnold saying "hasta la vista baby"
on the logout page (php page) of an online game I run (Blacknova
traders). I am just wondering why when in firefox, it will not play
it (I have Windows Media Player selected to play MP3s, WAVs , and
MIDI files).

Is this microsoft purposely doing this or what is it?

It is a simple HTML code used: <bgsound src="hasta.mp3" />

Of course I know in several cases Firefox and netscape have special
needs in coding for scripts. Like a javascript slideshow I use on a
page. So is there a special little way firefox needs inline sound
coded perhaps?

No darn wonder firefox is so security resistent - it cannot do half
of the stuff it should.. Firefox - conform, dammit!!. even just
placing a day/date/month javascript on a page and firefox displays a
line lower down than IE. does. Same with the slideshow. even with
the whole added script just for it, it still displays the slide show
window lower down on the page than I.E,. crap firefox... what a
hassle..

I'm just wondering if it's anything to do with this extract I'd got from a
Web page although you might not be using 'embed'. I was wondering more
about the default media player used by Mozilla and IE. I'm using Firefox
and had problems with no sound until I searched around.

[extract from http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/mark/audio/play.htm]

"The EMBED tag causes the sound file to be downloaded when the page itself
is downloaded (just like an image would be). The browser then looks for a
Plug-In to play the file. Internet Explorer will typically use the Windows
Media Player plug-in for sound files. Mozilla requires you to install a
suitable plug-in such as Quick Time. A disadvantage of the EMBED tag is that
because you do not know the dimensions or the name of the plug-in, it is
hard to control the size and format of the player's appearance."

Maybe that's something to do with it as I had sound playing problems until I
downloaded Quicktime.

Richard.


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[...D.]

I run a small 11 KB MP3 file of arnold saying "hasta la vista baby" on the
logout page (php page) of an online game I run (Blacknova traders). I am
just wondering why when in firefox, it will not play it (I have Windows
Media Player selected to play MP3s, WAVs , and MIDI files).
Is this microsoft purposely doing this or what is it?
It is a simple HTML code used: <bgsound src="hasta.mp3" />
Of course I know in several cases Firefox and netscape have special needs
in coding for scripts. Like a javascript slideshow I use on a page. So is
there a special little way firefox needs inline sound coded perhaps?
No darn wonder firefox is so security resistent - it cannot do half of the
stuff it should.. Firefox - conform, dammit!!. even just placing a
day/date/month javascript on a page and firefox displays a line lower down
than IE. does. Same with the slideshow. even with the whole added script
just for it, it still displays the slide show window lower down on the
page than I.E,. crap firefox... what a hassle..

Got lots of replies. Got one very helpful person.. And thanks .. Of
course, I got the <bgsound src="hasta.mp3" /> that you guys tell me is not
real HTML code from the w3w schools site (or whatever the site is called).

This also works in I.E. but not in Firefox - is this not real HTML either?
<img dynsrc="hasta.mp3" /> (also at w3w schools)

But the person who posted this for me
<object type="audio/mpeg" data="hasta.mp3">
which was not available in the HTML guides, Well, it works like a charm
for both I.E, & Firefox, and I suspect it will work in Netscape too since
I read Firefox & Netscape are in the same class of browsers. & so thank
you again. & to all of you, just for the conversation...
...D.