Frameset and frames ... I don't understand

A

Al Jones

This is 'default.html' at the moment it's a shell that I'm trying to start
to fill in. This validates ... for what that's worth at the moment.

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
<html lang="en">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=iso-8859-1">
<title>van Amber Civil War Diaries &&nbsp;Letters</title>
<link href="CssFiles/valetters.css" rel="stylesheet"
type="text/css" >
</head>

<frameset rows="3">
<frame src="Banner.html"
name="banner"
id="banner"
scrolling="Auto"
class="banner">
<frameset cols="2">
<frame>

<frame>

</frameset>
<frame>

</frameset>
</html>

This is banner.html and craps all over itself when I try to validate it -
I'm obviously using the validator as a teching tool.

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
<html lang="en">
<head>
<title>Banner</title>
<link href="CssFiles/valetters.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" >
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=iso-8859-1">
<meta name="description" content="">
<meta name="keywords" content="">
<meta name="author" content="">
</head>
<body>
<div class="wrapper">
<div class="left-element">
<img src="Images/cpvt2.jpg" align="left">
</div>
<div>
<span class="banner" id="banner" style="font-size: '20pt'" >
<p>William Wallace van Amber<br>Civil War Diaries &
Letters</p></span>
</div>
<div class="right-element">
<img src="Images/uspvt2.jpg" width="70" height="155"
align="right">
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

First the validator comlains that "'document type does not allow element
"BODY" here' but it was my understanding that what went in each of the
frames would be valid html if it were pulled up by itself. Obviously this
isn't, but as I said, I don't understand .

Second question - if I can't use a <p> where I have it, then how *do* I
display a text heading between my two images??
 
R

rf

Al Jones said:
This is banner.html and craps all over itself when I try to validate it -
I'm obviously using the validator as a teching tool.

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
Click to expand...

You should not be using the frameset DTD in a normal page, you should be
using transitional or, preferably, strict.

You also should not be using frames at all.
 
A

Al Jones

I shan't go into a discussion about the content of the web site -- thanks
for the pointer.
Are you the author - may I toss some questions your way. At least you
gave me something to look at that has answered a couple of questions for
me.

Thanks //al
 
A

Al Jones

You should not be using the frameset DTD in a normal page, you should be
using transitional or, preferably, strict.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that point. I'm learning by my mistakes ...
You also should not be using frames at all.
Click to expand...
This project will end up - I hope - on a CD to be mailed to family
memebers. With the content, frames is (er, are??) the only way to go.

After looking at the site that 'get-it' pointed me to, what I see is that
to put my two soldiers up on either side and the text in the middle I'm
going to need to revert to a table in that file??

Either way is going to be awkward -- but a sliding TOC on the left with
the text of the transcription on the right, seemms to be the most
realistic. Constructive comments appreciated :)

Thanks //al
 
S

Starshine Moonbeam

Al said:
This is 'default.html' at the moment it's a shell that I'm trying to start
to fill in. This validates ... for what that's worth at the moment.

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
<html lang="en">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=iso-8859-1">
<title>van Amber Civil War Diaries &&nbsp;Letters</title>
<link href="CssFiles/valetters.css" rel="stylesheet"
type="text/css" >
</head>

<frameset rows="3">
<frame src="Banner.html"
name="banner"
id="banner"
scrolling="Auto"
class="banner">
<frameset cols="2">
<frame>

<frame>

</frameset>
<frame>

</frameset>
</html>

This is banner.html and craps all over itself when I try to validate it -
I'm obviously using the validator as a teching tool.

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
<html lang="en">
<head>
<title>Banner</title>
<link href="CssFiles/valetters.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" >
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=iso-8859-1">
<meta name="description" content="">
<meta name="keywords" content="">
<meta name="author" content="">
</head>
<body>
<div class="wrapper">
<div class="left-element">
<img src="Images/cpvt2.jpg" align="left">
</div>
<div>
<span class="banner" id="banner" style="font-size: '20pt'" >
<p>William Wallace van Amber<br>Civil War Diaries &
Letters</p></span>
</div>
<div class="right-element">
<img src="Images/uspvt2.jpg" width="70" height="155"
align="right">
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

First the validator comlains that "'document type does not allow element
"BODY" here' but it was my understanding that what went in each of the
frames would be valid html if it were pulled up by itself. Obviously this
isn't, but as I said, I don't understand .
Click to expand...

A frameset *is* a body. That's why you don't use said:
Second question - if I can't use a <p> where I have it, then how *do* I
display a text heading between my two images??
Click to expand...

<p><span></span></p>

You also have both a class and an inline style in your span. Pick one.
 
B

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

Al said:
Second question - if I can't use a <p> where I have it, then how
*do* I display a text heading between my two images??
Click to expand...

This page of mine may give you some ideas for an object centered
between two images. Look at the HTML and CSS for the first banner, not
the one forced wide. Replace the center image with your text. If it is
the page's heading, it should probably be in an <h1></h1>.

http://home.rochester.rr.com/bshagnasty/banner.html
 
N

Neal

<div>
<span class="banner" id="banner" style="font-size: '20pt'" >
<p>William Wallace van Amber<br>Civil War Diaries &
Letters</p></span>
</div>
Click to expand...
First the validator comlains that "'document type does not allow
element "BODY" here' but it was my understanding that what went in each
of the frames would be valid html if it were pulled up by itself.
Obviously this isn't, but as I said, I don't understand .
Click to expand...

p is in span. Span is inline, p block. That's the p error. Assign the span
styles to the otherwise-useless div.
Second question - if I can't use a <p> where I have it, then how *do* I
display a text heading between my two images??
Click to expand...

Mark up the content according to what it is, not what you want it to look
like. Use stylesheets to suggest presentation.
 
A

Al Jones

This page of mine may give you some ideas for an object centered between
two images. Look at the HTML and CSS for the first banner, not the one
forced wide. Replace the center image with your text. If it is the
page's heading, it should probably be in an <h1></h1>.

http://home.rochester.rr.com/bshagnasty/banner.html
Click to expand...
Okay, (thanks, btw) I've quite literally pulled a lot of your file into
this one (http://brendasfire.com/amej/banner.html) I have this slung off a
friends web site, some of you might find her's interesting.

I think you can see what I'm trying to do -- and it's disgusting to see
that three out of three of the dmoe programs I'm looking at *don't*
display in their 'browsers' what I see when I bring this site up in opera
or IE.

I obviously have the background image in the wrong place as it doesn't
show at all.

Comments / suggestions.

My comments:
This project will probably never see the light of day on the net. My
intention is to put this group of letters on a cd to be distributed to
interrested family members.
It's an exercise for me to learn HTML/CSS and produce something for my
family.
 
B

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

Al said:
Okay, (thanks, btw) I've quite literally pulled a lot of your file
into this one (http://brendasfire.com/amej/banner.html) I have this
slung off a friends web site, some of you might find her's
interesting.
Click to expand...

If that little bit of text is all that is going to be in the center,
you may want to add some top padding to it to bring it down to the
center of the images. Maybe it should be an said:
I think you can see what I'm trying to do -- and it's disgusting to
see that three out of three of the dmoe programs I'm looking at
*don't* display in their 'browsers' what I see when I bring this
site up in opera or IE.
Click to expand...

Yes, I see. Is "dmoe" to be "demo"? Not sure what you meant there.
I obviously have the background image in the wrong place as it
doesn't show at all.
Click to expand...

Depends on where you want the background image. In the banner? For the
whole page?

body {
background: url("images/vvltgrayparch.jpg") #66ccff repeat;
}

Pick a color code that matches the bg of the image. If that graphic is
textured, be real sure it does not obscure the page's text. Most any
texturizing is a bad idea.
My comments: This project will probably never see the light of day
on the net. My intention is to put this group of letters on a cd
to be distributed to interrested family members. It's an exercise
for me to learn HTML/CSS and produce something for my family.
Click to expand...

Exercise is good for you. ;-)
 
A

Al Jones

On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 13:39:54 -0500, Beauregard T. Shagnasty

Exercise is good for you. ;-)
Click to expand...
Yeh, thanks ... I already don't cast a shadow!

Would you mind looking at http://brendasfire.com/amej/default.html with IE
and then almost anything else.
I have Firefox and Opera (my normal browser) and as expected things don't
look the same.

If you want, point me toward a reference - I don't mind being told to 'go
look at this.'

If you (all) have the patience -
why does the banner drop down so far?
why in IE do the img appear on top of the background and in FF and OP
under it?
what the blazes happened to my two other frames that should appear
beneath the banner?
While they're good items to be replaced - as they stand they're valid
html (I think?)

Once I get enough into my head, I'll stop asking dumb questions, but for
the nonce I don't know enough not to. My thanks //al
 
B

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

Al said:
On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 13:39:54 -0500, Beauregard T. Shagnasty

<< Snipped >>

Would you mind looking at http://brendasfire.com/amej/default.html
with IE and then almost anything else. I have Firefox and Opera
(my normal browser) and as expected things don't look the same.
Click to expand...

But they should ... said:
If you want, point me toward a reference - I don't mind being told
to 'go look at this.'

If you (all) have the patience - why does the banner drop down so
far?
Click to expand...

Because of the height of the images?
why in IE do the img appear on top of the background and in FF and
OP under it?
Click to expand...

You have the background image on both the boxbanner and the
bannerleft/right spans. I'm guessing that FF/Opera are correct. Try
removing the bg from the spans, and only use in the boxbanner.

Or only on the body. In any case, it should be just one place.

What happens if you use a Strict doctype (as you should for all new
documents)?
what the blazes happened to my two other frames that should appear
beneath the banner? While they're good items to be replaced - as
they stand they're valid html (I think?)
Click to expand...

As I think frames are evil, I will pass on this question.
 
J

jake

Al said:
On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 13:39:54 -0500, Beauregard T. Shagnasty
[snip]

Would you mind looking at http://brendasfire.com/amej/default.html with
IE and then almost anything else.
I have Firefox and Opera (my normal browser) and as expected things
don't look the same.
[snip]

what the blazes happened to my two other frames that should
appear beneath the banner?
While they're good items to be replaced - as they stand they're
valid html (I think?)
Click to expand...
[snip]

Specify columns and rows as lists of lengths (%, px, *)

http://www.gododdin.demon.co.uk/ng/testframe.html

"Frames are your friends"
Copyright 2004-2005 Duende ;-)
 
A

Al Jones

In message <1104718981.76fee6aa8941abe740713e4c1ee19688@teranews>, Al
what the blazes happened to my two other frames that should
appear beneath the banner?
While they're good items to be replaced - as they stand they're
valid html (I think?)
Click to expand...
[snip]

Specify columns and rows as lists of lengths (%, px, *)

http://www.gododdin.demon.co.uk/ng/testframe.html

"Frames are your friends"
Copyright 2004-2005 Duende ;-)
Click to expand...
Thanks Jake, any help on that banner ... why the browsers handlle it that
differently is disgusting!
 

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