Frameset look and behavior problem in Firefox... Help Please!

[Giggle Girl]

Hello there,
I need a frameset that will have the same look and behavior in Firefox
1.5+ as it does in IE 6+. Here is a URL for it:

http://66.51.164.93/fs/default.htm

In IE, the "seam" between the three frames is blue, 4 or 5 pixels
wide, and -- most importantly! -- draggable! It is great -- in IE,
that is. Is it possible to have this same look and behavior in
Firefox?

Here is the code for the frameset:

<frameset name="frameset_0" id="frameset_0" rows="309,*"
framespacing="3" border="0" frameborder="1" bordercolor="#6889BF"><!--
old #879CBF, new #6889BF -->

<frameset name="frameset_1" id="frameset_1" cols="25%,75%"
framespacing="3" border="0" frameborder="1" bordercolor="#6889BF">
<frame name="frame_1" id="frame_1" SRC="./_TEMP_frame.htm"
border="0" scrolling="no" resize frameborder="0">
<frame name="frame_2" id="frame_2" SRC="./_TEMP_frame.htm"
border="0" scrolling="no" resize frameborder="0">
</frameset>
<frame name="frame_2" id="frame_2" SRC="./_TEMP_frame.htm" border="0"
scrolling="no" resize frameborder="0">
</frameset>

Thanks for you help,
Giggle Girl

 

[dorayme]

I need a frameset that will have the same look and behavior in Firefox
1.5+ as it does in IE 6+. Here is a URL for it:

http://66.51.164.93/fs/default.htm

Put it though a validator and correct all mistakes, note and
preferably act on all warnings. (You even use an id twice in the
code...)

 

[Giggle Girl]

Put it though a validator and correct all mistakes, note and
preferably act on all warnings. (You even use an id twice in the
code...)

I will concede the duplicated ID error, but I guarantee it has nothing
to do with the nature of my issue outlined above. Furthermore, when I
put the HTML through a validator, I get ZERO errors, and 16 or so
warnings. Every one of the warnings says "Warning: <frame>
proprietary attribute "_____". In other words, I am using "IE only"
attributes. What you don't seem to get is that _IS_ what I am asking
for help with!! Hello, anyone home?

Quoting my original message:

"It looks great -- in IE, that is. Is it possible to have this same
look and behavior in Firefox?"

See? I want help making it look and work like it does in IE, and if
that means using Firefox only attributes, too, or finding the right
"cross browser" non-proprietary properties/attributes, so be it.

Of course I am getting warnings -- if I knew how to do this I wouldn't
be asking this in this group (and getting warnings in the first
place)!

Thanks,
Giggle Girl

 

[dorayme]

I will concede the duplicated ID error, but I guarantee it has nothing
to do with the nature of my issue outlined above. Furthermore, when I
put the HTML through a validator, I get ZERO errors,

And what validator would that be?

Here are some css ones:

CSS Error (99/20): Unknown CSS property ³overflow-y².
CSS Error (100/20): Unknown CSS property ³overflow-x².
CSS Error (119/13): Invalid property value ³5².
CSS Error (119/17): Invalid property value ³5².

Here some HTML ones (I leave the "warnings" out)

HTML error (10/124): The attribute ³NAME² in tag <FRAMESET> is
not allowed.
HTML error (10/124): The attribute ³BORDERCOLOR² in tag
<FRAMESET> is not allowed.
....

HTML error (13/111): The attribute ³RESIZE² in tag <FRAME> is not
allowed.

HTML error (14/111): The attribute ³RESIZE² in tag <FRAME> is not
allowed.

HTML error (17/110): The attribute ³RESIZE² in tag <FRAME> is not
allowed.

In other words, I am using "IE only"
attributes. What you don't seem to get is that _IS_ what I am asking
for help with!! Hello, anyone home?

I love being talked to by giggling girls like this. Actually, I
have been wondering about the home bit in relation to myself for
some time now.. You tell me. I am very bad at self diagnosis.
Most beings are.

Quoting my original message:

"It looks great -- in IE, that is. Is it possible to have this same
look and behavior in Firefox?"

Well, I can suggest you forget about anything that is
proprietorial to IE in constructing a webpage or site, how can it
not cause cross browser trouble or be ignored? Hello!

See? I want help making it look and work like it does in IE, and if
that means using Firefox only attributes, too, or finding the right
"cross browser" non-proprietary properties/attributes, so be it.

Use only things you find mentioned at:

http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/present/frames.html

Also look at your target htmls and note these do not code for
frames, so check the doctype there.

Thanks,
Giggle Girl

If you are a very very good girl and repost url after you have
done what you can after reading all the above, I will try to help
you further. That is, if I am still home. <g>

 

[Giggle Girl]

And what validator would that be?

Here are some css ones:

CSS Error (99/20): Unknown CSS property ³overflow-y².
CSS Error (100/20): Unknown CSS property ³overflow-x².
CSS Error (119/13): Invalid property value ³5².
CSS Error (119/17): Invalid property value ³5².

Here some HTML ones (I leave the "warnings" out)

HTML error (10/124): The attribute ³NAME² in tag <FRAMESET> is
not allowed.
HTML error (10/124): The attribute ³BORDERCOLOR² in tag
<FRAMESET> is not allowed.
...

HTML error (13/111): The attribute ³RESIZE² in tag <FRAME> is not
allowed.

HTML error (14/111): The attribute ³RESIZE² in tag <FRAME> is not
allowed.



I love being talked to by giggling girls like this. Actually, I
have been wondering about the home bit in relation to myself for
some time now.. You tell me. I am very bad at self diagnosis.
Most beings are.



Well, I can suggest you forget about anything that is
proprietorial to IE in constructing a webpage or site, how can it
not cause cross browser trouble or be ignored? Hello!


Use only things you find mentioned at:

http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/present/frames.html

Also look at your target htmls and note these do not code for
frames, so check the doctype there.


If you are a very very good girl and repost url after you have
done what you can after reading all the above, I will try to help
you further. That is, if I am still home. <g>

Ha ha! I don't think I need your help. I don't think you get it, or
don't understand my questions.

I will look for solutions elsewhere.

Thanks all the same,
Ann, a.k.a. Giggle Girl

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

Giggle Girl wrote:

Ha ha! I don't think I need your help. I don't think you get it, or
don't understand my questions.

I will look for solutions elsewhere.

<frameset name="frameset_1" id="frameset_1" cols="25%,75%"
framespacing="3" border="0" frameborder="1" bordercolor="#6889BF">
^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Hmmm no border or border, which is it? Amazing things happen when your
delete 'border="0"'.

 

[Giggle Girl]

<frameset name="frameset_1" id="frameset_1" cols="25%,75%"
framespacing="3" border="0" frameborder="1" bordercolor="#6889BF">
^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Hmmm no border or border, which is it? Amazing things happen when your
delete 'border="0"'.

Thank you for that point, Jonathan.

It has led me to tweak things that are giving me better results (like
"draggability") in Firefox. Unfortunately, the same code that works
better for Firefox causes the IE version to look worse, so I may have
to have some sort of detection and use a different frameset for IE and
FF.

Thanks for the lead...

Ann, a.k.a. Giggle Girl

 

[Andy Dingley]

I need a frameset that will have the same look and behavior in Firefox

Validate it. Validate the HTML, validate the CSS.

It might work, it might not. But if it's hard to fix valid code, then
it's even harder to fix invalid code, so do it anyway. There is no
reason not to, lots of reasons to do so.

 

[Giggle Girl]

Validate it. Validate the HTML, validate the CSS.

It might work, it might not. But if it's hard to fix valid code, then
it's even harder to fix invalid code, so do it anyway. There is no
reason not to, lots of reasons to do so.

I ran code in the URL through a Validator that is a plugin called
"HTML Validator" in Firefox. Bseides the duplicate ID error, it gave
me only 16 warnings, every one of which was a "Using proprietary IE
attribute". Again, if I did NOT use the IE proprietary attributes, it
would not be possible for me to say "Go to this URL and view it in
IE. _THAT_ is how I want it to look/behave in Firefox. Can you help
me?"

You and "dorayme" don't seem to understand this, yet I feel I cannot
be more clear. Please just ignore this thread.

Again, thanks go to Jonathan N. Little who offered something of value
instead of trying to shout me down with some useless mantra. (I have
seen enough threads here to know "Run it through a validator" is the
first line of defense for people that ultimately have the least advice
to offer.)

-- Ann (Still the Giggle Girl)

 

[John Hosking]

You and "dorayme" don't seem to understand this, yet I feel I cannot
be more clear. Please just ignore this thread.

Ann,

You have billed your situation as a "problem in Firefox," so people
think you mean Firefox isn't working the way it's supposed to (or, as is
more usually the case, the way you expect or hope).

What you really want (and probably should have asked for) is to
"Duplicate proprietary IE frameset behavior in FF."

Dorayme's and Andy's suggestions to validate are surely their way of
pointing out that you code won't likely work with a standards-compliant
browser, so that's probably part or all of your problem. You know it was
non-standard but we didn't know you knew. (Still, having multiple
duplicate IDs can't be helping you any. And you haven't fixed that yet.)

I hope this is helpful or at least, um, enlightening. I regret that I do
not know the technical answer to your (actual) questions. I must confess
a certain lack of interest in achieving this particular task. But good luck.

 

[dorayme]

Again, thanks go to Jonathan N. Little who offered something of value
instead of trying to shout me down with some useless mantra. (I have
seen enough threads here to know "Run it through a validator" is the
first line of defense for people that ultimately have the least advice
to offer.)

What exactly is the point of these insults to people who try to
help you? What motivates you except a mean spirited demand for
immediate practical help that involves you in the least amount of
work, work that would in fact stand you in good stead if you are
going to continue to use frames?

Just how useless was my advice to "use only things you find
mentioned at:

http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/present/frames.html"

(and especially at "16.2.2 The FRAME element")? Did you even
bother to read the section and try the advice at all?

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

I ran code in the URL through a Validator that is a plugin called
"HTML Validator" in Firefox. Bseides the duplicate ID error, it gave
me only 16 warnings, every one of which was a "Using proprietary IE
attribute". Again, if I did NOT use the IE proprietary attributes, it
would not be possible for me to say "Go to this URL and view it in
IE. _THAT_ is how I want it to look/behave in Firefox. Can you help
me?"

You and "dorayme" don't seem to understand this, yet I feel I cannot
be more clear. Please just ignore this thread.

Again, thanks go to Jonathan N. Little who offered something of value
instead of trying to shout me down with some useless mantra. (I have
seen enough threads here to know "Run it through a validator" is the
first line of defense for people that ultimately have the least advice
to offer.)

I was not condoning what you are trying to do, just pointed out an
inconsistency in your markup. You will never get Firefox to "behave"
like IE is this manner because IE attributes are proprietary to
Microsoft just as styling the chrome elements such as scrollbars!

 

[Giggle Girl]

Thanks for your reply, John Hosking. And not just telling me to run
things through a validator, ha! I guess people might get misled by me
saying "Problem with Firefox", but at the same time, it does seem like
an accurate way to describe the problem/issue. Still, no need to
split hairs, we'll call it a "miscommunication".

I was not condoning what you are trying to do, just pointed out an
inconsistency in your markup.

Jonathan N. Little, have no fear, no one in this group should make
the mistake of assuming since you actually offered me some help, that
you are "condoning what I am doing"! For the record, what I am doing
is _WRONG_. You see, I have paying clients that liked the look and
behavior in IE of a web application I am building, and they want me to
replicate this look/behavior in Firefox. You are not going to believe
it, but they don't care about W3C standards or what kind of code I use
to achieve this result, they just want it to work! In fact, if my
clients had to choose between some devilish tweaks that are not
compliant, but give results darn close to the look and behavior of the
original URL in IE AND Firefox -- I hope you are sitting down for this
-- they would be very happy, and care not one whit about non-compliant
code!

Conversely, it seems that the vast majority of people in this group
live in an ivory tower, and would sooner choose to implement 100%
compliant code according to the W3C, even if it looked like crap and
was broken in 99% of browsers. My guess is when you enter the real
world and have paying customers, you will adjust this view, or change
careers in short order. (If this is a hobby of yours, you are a
student, you work for the government, or live in a communist country,
well, pray that you never have to do this stuff "in the real world"!
You will be in for a real wake up call.)

I am _STILL_ giggling, and _STILL_ thank the people that offered me
help besides "run it through a validator". I am not get bent out of
shape; I knew what I was up against posting in a newsgroup. And, as I
said, I did get at least one helpfull comment, and one (sort of)
sympathetic response, so it was worth the posting.

I remain the Original Giggle Girl!
-- Ann Giggy

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

Thanks for your reply, John Hosking. And not just telling me to run
things through a validator, ha! I guess people might get misled by me
saying "Problem with Firefox", but at the same time, it does seem like
an accurate way to describe the problem/issue. Still, no need to
split hairs, we'll call it a "miscommunication".



Jonathan N. Little, have no fear, no one in this group should make
the mistake of assuming since you actually offered me some help, that
you are "condoning what I am doing"! For the record, what I am doing
is _WRONG_. You see, I have paying clients that liked the look and
behavior in IE of a web application I am building, and they want me to
replicate this look/behavior in Firefox. You are not going to believe
it, but they don't care about W3C standards or what kind of code I use
to achieve this result, they just want it to work! In fact, if my
clients had to choose between some devilish tweaks that are not
compliant, but give results darn close to the look and behavior of the
original URL in IE AND Firefox -- I hope you are sitting down for this
-- they would be very happy, and care not one whit about non-compliant
code!

....

Ah, go ahead, just put one of those dime-o-dozen browser sniffing
javascript popups "Warning MSIE Required To View This Site!"

 

[Richard Formby]

Giggle Girl wrote

You see, I have paying clients that liked the look and
behavior in IE of a web application I am building, and they want me to
replicate this look/behavior in Firefox. You are not going to believe
it, but they don't care about W3C standards or what kind of code I use
to achieve this result, they just want it to work!

Client: Why can't I go across the river in this Firefox car?

Web dresigner. I'm sure you can. Somehow.

Client: Well, I can go quite safely across the river with my IE. You had
better make it so for my Firefox car as well.

Web dresigner. Hang on a tick... Hello newsgroup. How do I make this so?

Newsgroup: You don't.

Web dresigner: But we can go across the river very easily with with our IE.
We want to be able to so with our Firefox car as well.

Newsgroup: Er, your IE vehicle is a boat.

 

[Giggle Girl]

Ah, go ahead, just put one of those dime-o-dozen browser sniffing
javascript popups "Warning MSIE Required To View This Site!"

Well not exactly. I will have "browser sniffing", and put code for
IE6 & 7 similar to what I originally showed, and put different code
for FF 1.5 and 2.0. That will cover > 90% of who is out there; other
browsers will be told a message similar to what you mentioned.

The code for FF will be whatever it takes to make it look and behave
similar to the IE version.

This is a Web Application, not merely "brochure ware" for a website,
so there is stuff much more complicated than the frameset that has to
happen, so it was never going to work with every browser anyway.

Thanks for your help,
Miss Giggy