Fribre Optic

[Roedy Green]

Crews have been laying fibre optic in my city for a decade, I but I
still have seen no IAP access services offered for actual use.

Has anyone subscribed to one? What is it like?

Is there anything Java programmers should know about how their apps
behave on them?
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com

"For reason that have a lot to do with US Government bureaucracy, we settled on the one issue everyone could agree on, which was weapons of mass destruction."
~ Paul Wolfowitz 2003-06, explaining how the Bush administration sold the Iraq war to a gullible public.

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Crews have been laying fibre optic in my city for a decade, I but I
still have seen no IAP access services offered for actual use.

Has anyone subscribed to one? What is it like?

Is there anything Java programmers should know about how their apps
behave on them?

No.

Java does not deal with cable types - Java deals with IP.

Arne

 

[Tom Anderson]

No.

Java does not deal with cable types - Java deals with IP.

Java deals with TCP (and UDP). TCP (and UDP) deals with IP!

tom

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

Crews have been laying fibre optic in my city for a decade, I but I
still have seen no IAP access services offered for actual use.

Has anyone subscribed to one? What is it like?

Is there anything Java programmers should know about how their apps
behave on them?

IP connections are faster, so bandwidth intensive stuff becomes more
practical?

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Java deals with TCP (and UDP). TCP (and UDP) deals with IP!

Java can not send or receive raw IP packets.

But I would still say that Java deals with IP.

Among other things it is IP address not TCP address.

Arne

 

[Roedy Green]

No. The physical cable is down at the bottom of the seven layer
model. Java deals only with the higher levels.

Why must you all be such pedantic lawyers deliberately trying to
misinterpret my question in a childish game of one-upmanship?

If you haven't used fibre, shut up.

If you have, please inform us of any unexpected consequences of the
extreme speed, and anything you might say about the subjective
experience.
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com

"For reason that have a lot to do with US Government bureaucracy, we settled on the one issue everyone could agree on, which was weapons of mass destruction."
~ Paul Wolfowitz 2003-06, explaining how the Bush administration sold the Iraq war to a gullible public.

 

[Roedy Green]

If you have, please inform us of any unexpected consequences of the
extreme speed, and anything you might say about the subjective
experience.

What new sorts of techniques/applications become practical that you
would not think of when you are limited by cable bandwidths?

Long ago I calculated that logging in would take 3 days on my old tube
LGP-30 if it used the same code that an IBM 360 model 50 did.

I think it would take a while for the imaginary shackles to come off
once you had fibre.
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com

"For reason that have a lot to do with US Government bureaucracy, we settled on the one issue everyone could agree on, which was weapons of mass destruction."
~ Paul Wolfowitz 2003-06, explaining how the Bush administration sold the Iraq war to a gullible public.

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Why must you all be such pedantic lawyers deliberately trying to
misinterpret my question in a childish game of one-upmanship?

This is a technical group.

It is expected that people are able to express themselves
more technical than the average homo sapiens computerius ignorantus.

If you haven't used fibre, shut up.

This is a public discussion forum. If you do not want comments, then
don't post.

If you have, please inform us of any unexpected consequences of the
extreme speed, and anything you might say about the subjective
experience.

extreme speed ??

Internet via fiber is often sold as 25, 50 or 100 Mbit while
ADSL/Cable is often 5, 10 or 20.

That is just a x5 in speed.

Thing will go x5 faster.

But there will not break anything more than what broke when
you upgraded from 2 to 10 Mbit ADSL.

Most likely nothing.

The stuff on your LAN is already running at 100 Mbit or 1 Gbit.

Arne

 

[Ramon F Herrera]

Crews have been laying fibre optic in my city for a decade, I but I
still have seen no IAP access services offered for actual use.

Has anyone subscribed to one?  What is it like?

Is there anything Java programmers should know about how their apps
behave on them?
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Productshttp://mindprod.com

"For reason that have a lot to do with US Government bureaucracy, we settled on the one issue everyone could agree on, which was weapons of mass destruction."
~ Paul Wolfowitz 2003-06, explaining how the Bush administration sold the Iraq war to a gullible public.

Fiber speed is still much slower than a LAN, Roedy.

If you want to know what to expect from that kind of bandwidth, just
place some sort of handicap (lots of packets) on your 1 Gbps LAN.

-Ramon

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

This is a technical group.

It is expected that people are able to express themselves
more technical than the average homo sapiens computerius ignorantus.


This is a public discussion forum. If you do not want comments, then
don't post.


extreme speed ??

Internet via fiber is often sold as 25, 50 or 100 Mbit while
ADSL/Cable is often 5, 10 or 20.

That is just a x5 in speed.

Thing will go x5 faster.

But there will not break anything more than what broke when
you upgraded from 2 to 10 Mbit ADSL.

Most likely nothing.

The stuff on your LAN is already running at 100 Mbit or 1 Gbit.

Arne

Well, if I got 100 Mb/s instead of 3 I might consider online apps like
google supplies to be more useable. Or maybe not. I just don't know.
Would I see server side limitations?

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

 

[Lew]

Why must you all be such pedantic lawyers deliberately trying to
misinterpret my question in a childish game of one-upmanship?

Maybe they thought they were doing you the honor of answering the question as
asked.

If you haven't used fibre, shut up.

If you have, please inform us of any unexpected consequences of the
extreme speed, and anything you might say about the subjective
experience.

These are details you did not express initially, thus leaving people to answer
the question as phrased. Maybe you should relax and look for the nuggets of
truth and wisdom in their answers.

I know that I saw some there. I interpreted their answers as, "It don't make
no never mind to Java whether you use fiber or no." This seems like an
entirely legitimate response to

Has anyone subscribed to one? What is it like?

Is there anything Java programmers should know about how their apps
behave on them?

If you ask a question on a public forum and people answer fairly as they did
in this instance, then the poster really has nothing legitimate about which to
complain.

 

[Eric Sosman]

Why must you all be such pedantic lawyers deliberately trying to
misinterpret my question in a childish game of one-upmanship?

Why must you (singular) pollute a Java forum with your
questions about fibre, your notions about streaming video,
and your opinions of United States politics?

If you haven't used fibre, shut up.

If you have nothing to say or ask about Java, shut up here
and take your talk elsewhere. There is both more and less to
Java than "Whatever Roedy feels like chatting about today."

If you have, please inform us of any unexpected consequences of the
extreme speed, and anything you might say about the subjective
experience.

Speed kills, extreme speed kills extremely. Here's hoping
it kills this thread and others like it. Extremely, and speedily.

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Well, if I got 100 Mb/s instead of 3 I might consider online apps like
google supplies to be more useable. Or maybe not. I just don't know.
Would I see server side limitations?

Note that 100 Mbit from your wall to the ISP does not guarantee
100 Mbit from your wall to Google.

Arne

 

[Mike Schilling]

IP connections are faster, so bandwidth intensive stuff becomes more
practical?

Or, to put it another way, internet speeds begin to approach LAN
speeds, so applications previously practical only on LANs become
feasible on WANs.

Or, more cynically, the data-reduction techniques currently used for
internet-based application will fall into disuse, as data transmission
expands to fill the available bandwidth.

Or perhaps, since the main point of fiber is to carry more
conversations, not faster individual conversations, nothing much
changes.

 

[Ramon F Herrera]

> Internet speeds begin to approach LAN speeds,
> so applications previously practical only on LANs become
> feasible on WANs.

....and as Internet speeds approach LAN speeds, LAN speeds too become
much faster. 10 Gbps LANs are not that far off. While it is
technically possible to provide one of those super-bandwidth links
(the ones used overseas) to an end user, it makes no sense
economically.

-Ramon

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

Or, to put it another way, internet speeds begin to approach LAN
speeds, so applications previously practical only on LANs become
feasible on WANs.

At that point, it shall be recalled that even if fibers provide higher
bandwidth to home users, they do not do much in the realm of latency.
Right now, from my home with a cable connection, I am 10ms away from my
ISP servers, and 30ms away from www.google.com (these are ping times).
Regardless of the merits of the fiber, that's 20ms which I will never
see back.

30ms is not much -- I cannot "sense" less than 50ms latency when
editing text over SSH, an activity which is very sensitive to
latency -- but it is still too big for some applications. On a LAN,
you routinely get below 1ms, which is much better.


(A friend of mine once worked on a car simulator: a big machine which
had several screen for front, rear and side views. It was managed by
several computers [that was about 12 years ago]. He told me that latency
was the biggest problem: latency implied trouble with synchronizing the
views, and even small time shifts -- smaller than could be conciously
noticed by a human observer -- were enough to make any driver awfully
sick in a few minutes.)

No doubt a swift change of tack and he could have provided the scenery
for the prisoners at Guantanamo

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

 

[Stefan Ram]

30ms is not much -- I cannot "sense" less than 50ms latency when

In this regard, see also:

http://www.mindhacks.com/blog/2009/06/pressed_for_time_per.html

.