future of C++

[puzzlecracker]

I was wondering what people think about the future (if any) for C++.
How long do you think it will be marketable for and how would it market
value stand against other powerhouses (!!!) such as Java or C#? Is
there going to be another standardization? C++ is such a powerful
language and its graduate descent to oblivion seem rather disturbing.

Thanks,



p.s. This is probably not the best group for such open-ended
discussions, but it, in fact, has members who are qualified to express
qualitative opinions, and not sure whether other groups have that.

p.s. what are the forebodings for cs in general?

 

[Ioannis Vranos]

I was wondering what people think about the future (if any) for C++.
How long do you think it will be marketable for and how would it market
value stand against other powerhouses (!!!) such as Java or C#? Is
there going to be another standardization? C++ is such a powerful
language and its graduate descent to oblivion seem rather disturbing.

Thanks,



p.s. This is probably not the best group for such open-ended
discussions, but it, in fact, has members who are qualified to express
qualitative opinions, and not sure whether other groups have that.

p.s. what are the forebodings for cs in general?

With the advent of VC++ 2005, C++ becomes the systems programming language of .NET.


Some references:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/05/01/COptimizations/default.aspx

http://pluralsight.com/blogs/hsutter/archive/2004/10/05/2672.aspx

http://blogs.msdn.com/branbray/archive/2003/11/07/51007.aspx

http://www.accu.org/conference/pres...Relevant_on_Modern_Environments_(keynote).pdf


And a page of mine:

http://www23.brinkster.com/noicys/cppcli.htm

 

[Andre Kostur]

[snip usual flamebait comparing languages]

This is off-topic for comp.lang.c++. Please take it to an advocacy group
somewhere.

 

[Victor Bazarov]

I was wondering what people think about the future (if any) for C++.
[...]

I mean no offense, but...

Have you actually even attempted to see what was said (written) on
this subject already? I mean, if you care what people think, you
might consider doing your research before starting the umpteenth
"discussion" on that "subject"... Don't get me wrong, but I am a bit
tired of reading this here every other month. If you have something
to add, add it to the discussion that's already under way (and nobody
closed any of the threads AFAIK). Otherwise it looks just waaaay too
much like trolling.

 

[puzzlecracker]

define trolling please

 

[puzzlecracker]

I was wondering what people think about the future (if any) for C++.
[...]

I mean no offense, but...

Have you actually even attempted to see what was said (written) on
this subject already? I mean, if you care what people think, you
might consider doing your research before starting the umpteenth
"discussion" on that "subject"... Don't get me wrong, but I am a bit
tired of reading this here every other month. If you have something
to add, add it to the discussion that's already under way (and nobody
closed any of the threads AFAIK). Otherwise it looks just waaaay too
much like trolling.

define trolling please

 

[Victor Bazarov]

define trolling please

Look it up on the Web please.

 

[Alvin]

I was wondering what people think about the future (if any) for C++.
How long do you think it will be marketable for and how would it market
value stand against other powerhouses (!!!) such as Java or C#? Is
there going to be another standardization? C++ is such a powerful
language and its graduate descent to oblivion seem rather disturbing.

Thanks,



p.s. This is probably not the best group for such open-ended
discussions, but it, in fact, has members who are qualified to express
qualitative opinions, and not sure whether other groups have that.

p.s. what are the forebodings for cs in general?

Future of C++? Other powerhouses such as Java or C#? C# is a powerhouse?
Wow! You have plenty of research still to do! You make plenty of empty,
naive (or ignorant ... I'm not quite sure which one) statements. Do some
more research and then come back.

Oh, an answer to your other post "please define trolling", well Google is
your friend: http://www.google.ca/search?q=define:trolling

Alvin

 

[Victor Bazarov]

puzzlecracker wrote:
[...]
Future of C++? Other powerhouses such as Java or C#? C# is a powerhouse?
Wow! [...]

Please don't feed trolls.

 

[Ian McCulloch]

define trolling please

http://justfuckinggoogleit.com/search.pl?query=internet+troll

 

[Phlip]

I was wondering what people think about the future (if any) for C++.

In 2005, I say Ruby will replace C++.

In 2000, MS said C# will replace C++.

In 1995, Sun said Java will replace C++.

In 1990, MS said VB will replace C++.

In 1985, NeXT said Objective C will replace C.


In 1980, PARC said Smalltalk will replace C.

So, it looks like it's unanimous. C++ will be replaced!

 

[E. Robert Tisdale]

I was wondering what people think about the future (if any) for C++.
How long do you think it will be marketable
for and how would it market value stand
against other powerhouses (!!!) such as Java or C#?
Is there going to be another standardization?
C++ is such a powerful language
and its gradual descent to oblivion seem rather disturbing.

Bjarne Stroustrup discussed this briefly in a recent visit to our lab.
There is *no* replacement for C++ on the horizon.

Certainly, neither Java or C# can replace C++.
You can't write practical operating systems, device drivers
or real-time application programs in either Java or C#.
You can't even implement a practical Java Virtual Machine in Java.

Java was very carefully designed to simplify programming
for most popular applications by sacrificing features
that would allow it to be used as a truly general purpose
computer programming language.

C++, Java and C#
are *not* the best computer programming language designs.
The smalltalk computer programming language design
was *much* better than Java which was "inspired" by smalltalk.
The reasons why programmers do not use the *best*
computer programming language are deeply embedded in human nature.
Programmers, like all other human beings,
more easily accept things that appear familiar to them.
C programmers accepted C++ because it seemed to be like C.
C++ programmers accepted Java because it seemed to be like C++.
Java programmers accept C# because they are easily deceived.

The only thing that disturbs me about Java
is that there is no ANSI/ISO standard.
This should set off alarm bells for any developer
investing in durable libraries and applications.
But, then, I have never seen any Java code
that lasted for more than a few months
before being rewritten or discarded.

 

[puzzlecracker]

Actually, I was NOT asking the question in a troll's way...

The company I work for is , not surprisingly, Java based, with some
C#, and very very small (and to an extend trivial) C++.

To me C++ is more of a hobby language - yet I always wanted to work
with C++ professionally. And I was sincerely curious if it is
worthwhile endeavor to still invest my time into it.....

I apologize if this question, due to its repetitive nature, offended
anyone.




..cracker.


ps.. learned something new - troll

 

[Ioannis Vranos]

Actually, I was NOT asking the question in a troll's way...

The company I work for is , not surprisingly, Java based, with some
C#, and very very small (and to an extend trivial) C++.

To me C++ is more of a hobby language - yet I always wanted to work
with C++ professionally. And I was sincerely curious if it is
worthwhile endeavor to still invest my time into it.....

I apologize if this question, due to its repetitive nature, offended
anyone.

Did you see my reply on this?

 

[Phlip]

Actually, I was NOT asking the question in a troll's way...

The accusation of trolling deserves an easy boomerang effect.

The company I work for is , not surprisingly, Java based, with some
C#, and very very small (and to an extend trivial) C++.

Great. They should be using a very-high level language with dynamic typing
and block closures, like Ruby, and they should only use C++ for the fast
stuff.

Java is a pitiful attempt to copy C++'s OO model, without the stray pointers
and overruns, but also without all the new improved techniques.

To me C++ is more of a hobby language - yet I always wanted to work
with C++ professionally. And I was sincerely curious if it is
worthwhile endeavor to still invest my time into it.....

What's more important is you program as a hobby. That puts you above the 2%
mark, among the Real Programmers. Now download and try to use every friggin
language and system you can.

Learning more C++ will not "waste neurons" or anything. But it may piss you
off to some of Java's amazing shortcomings.

 

[puzzlecracker]

The accusation of trolling deserves an easy boomerang effect.


Great. They should be using a very-high level language with dynamic typing
and block closures, like Ruby, and they should only use C++ for the fast
stuff.

Java is a pitiful attempt to copy C++'s OO model, without the stray pointers
and overruns, but also without all the new improved techniques.


What's more important is you program as a hobby. That puts you above the 2%
mark, among the Real Programmers. Now download and try to use every friggin
language and system you can.

Learning more C++ will not "waste neurons" or anything. But it may piss you
off to some of Java's amazing shortcomings.

Learning more C++ will not "waste neurons" or anything. But it may piss you
off to some of Java's amazing shortcomings.

cute
- I have been with C++ since I turned 16.... but never made a buck off
it....
Java 5.0 is pretty good though... adding templates, autobocing seems
promising.

 

[Jonathan Turkanis]

- I have been with C++ since I turned 16....

That's like saying "I've been bleeding since I turned 50"; it's meaningless
unless you know how old I am.

but never made a buck
off it....

Not surprised.

Jonathan

 

[Phlip]

- I have been with C++ since I turned 16.... but never made a buck off
it....

The best things in life are free... ;-)

(However, the really hard sectors of some very sexy programming, such as
game development, use C++ very well.)

Java 5.0 is pretty good though... adding templates, autobocing seems
promising.

That's just the thing. Under the best kinds of dynamic typing, classes are
objects. Passing classes, by name, into functions gives all the design
benefits of templates, without the huge cognitive overhead of C++'s system.
That's just a typesafe kind of macro expansion.

 

[Ioannis Vranos]

That's just the thing. Under the best kinds of dynamic typing, classes are
objects. Passing classes, by name, into functions gives all the design
benefits of templates, without the huge cognitive overhead of C++'s system.
That's just a typesafe kind of macro expansion.

ISO C++ lacks many "convenient" features because one of its design ideals is space and
run-time efficiency. However most/all of such features are provided by a system. An
example is .NET features.


An example in .NET is

int x;

String *p= x.ToString();

for example.


What is the benefit of having classes being objects? May you provide an example? Are you
talking about RTTI?

 

[Ioannis Vranos]

ISO C++ lacks many "convenient" features because one of its design
ideals is space and run-time efficiency. However most/all of such
features are provided by

any system that uses them.