is it possible to have an rtl frameset?

E

eyal.herlin

hi,
i have the following demo code:
<html>
<head>
</head>
<frameset cols="30%,*">
<frame src="">
</frame>
<frame src="">
</frame>
</frameset>
</html>

this would render as a 30% frame on the left and the rest in the right
frame.
my question is wether it is possible to use an html or css directive
to make this frameset render from right to left (so the 30% frame is
on the right).
i tried using dir="rtl" and direction:rtl but to no avail.

thanks alot in advance,
eyal.
 
S

Steve Pugh

hi,
i have the following demo code:
<html>
<head>
</head>
Click to expand...

Did you miss the mandatory <title> element out for the sake of
simplifying your example or is it also missing from your actual site?

<frameset cols="30%,*">
<frame src="">
</frame>
Click to expand...

Invalid in HTML and not recommended in XHTML. Try just <frame> for the
former and said:
<frame src="">
</frame>
</frameset>

</html>

this would render as a 30% frame on the left and the rest in the right
frame.
my question is wether it is possible to use an html or css directive
to make this frameset render from right to left (so the 30% frame is
on the right).
Click to expand...

<frameset cols="*,30%">

Steve
 
E

eyal.herlin

thanks for your points steve.
the code looks as it does due to both simplicity and the fact that it
was taken from an xsl source.
your final solution is the one i am trying to avoid since it would
require programming to change between 30%,* and *,30% depending on the
language used (the language can be changed in the application i am
writing).
 
J

J.O. Aho

thanks for your points steve.
the code looks as it does due to both simplicity and the fact that it
was taken from an xsl source.
your final solution is the one i am trying to avoid since it would
require programming to change between 30%,* and *,30% depending on the
language used (the language can be changed in the application i am
writing).
Click to expand...

If you are using server side scripts, you could as easily let the script also
handle the frames too depending on language.

It could also be easier to use div-tags instead of frames, then you can let
load a style sheet depending if you have left or right language.
 
E

eyal.herlin

If you are using server side scripts, you could as easily let the script also
handle the frames too depending on language.
Click to expand...

would rather avoid that IF possible.
It could also be easier to use div-tags instead of frames, then you can let
load a style sheet depending if you have left or right language.
Click to expand...

not currently an option. changing the application to be frameless will
require alot of work.

thanks,
eyal
 
R

Richard Formby

would rather avoid that IF possible.
Click to expand...

It sounds like it's about time to start.

not currently an option. changing the application to be frameless will
require alot of work.
Click to expand...

Then you are stuck then.

Go over to the specifications:

http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/

You will find that RTL is applied to the content of a page, not the layout
of a frameset.

BTW did you consult with the specs when you decided to invent direction=rtl
? :)
 
E

eyal.herlin

(e-mail address removed) wrote:


It sounds like it's about time to start.


Then you are stuck then.

Go over to the specifications:

http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/

You will find that RTL is applied to the content of a page, not the layout
of a frameset.
Click to expand...

went overs the specs (as i probably should have before).
i didn't see any reference to the dir attribute in the frames section.
what confuses me is that <html dir="rtl"> is legal so why won't it be
effective in the context of a frameset?
but anyhow testing has shown me this does not work as i would hope.
i will probably change the frames layout programmatically and later on
move to no frames.
BTW did you consult with the specs when you decided to invent direction=rtl
? :)
Click to expand...
i never said direction=rtl. i said dir=rtl (html) and direction:rtl
(css). no hard feelings ;-)
 
J

Jukka K. Korpela

Scripsit (e-mail address removed):
i didn't see any reference to the dir attribute in the frames section.
what confuses me is that <html dir="rtl"> is legal so why won't it be
effective in the context of a frameset?
Click to expand...

No good reason. When frames were invented by the &evil;, they didn't think
very much (otherwise they would not have invented frames) and almost surely
had no idea of internationalization. Later when frames were pushed into a
formal spec, it was dirty work and people didn't think too much.

Logically, a dir attribute on <html> _should_ affect the layout direction of
frames just as it affects the layout direction of tables, and <frameset>
_should_ allow the dir attribute. But things went differently, and it hasn't
bother people much since it really affects some multilingual sites only -
and only if they use frames.
i will probably change the frames layout programmatically and later on
move to no frames.
Click to expand...

Why? The more work it takes to get rid of frames, the sooner you should
start with it. Just make sure you coordinate this with an overall redesign.
You know, separating content from presentation, moving all styling to CSS,
using HTML 4.01 Strict, checking accessibility and usability, etc. It's so
much easier to do a nice redesign once than different redesigns every year.
 
E

eyal.herlin

Scripsit (e-mail address removed):


No good reason. When frames were invented by the &evil;, they didn't think
very much (otherwise they would not have invented frames) and almost surely
had no idea of internationalization. Later when frames were pushed into a
formal spec, it was dirty work and people didn't think too much.

Logically, a dir attribute on <html> _should_ affect the layout direction of
frames just as it affects the layout direction of tables, and <frameset>
_should_ allow the dir attribute. But things went differently, and it hasn't
bother people much since it really affects some multilingual sites only -
and only if they use frames.


Why? The more work it takes to get rid of frames, the sooner you should
start with it. Just make sure you coordinate this with an overall redesign.
You know, separating content from presentation, moving all styling to CSS,
using HTML 4.01 Strict, checking accessibility and usability, etc. It's so
much easier to do a nice redesign once than different redesigns every year.
Click to expand...

thanks alot, u cleared my head and gave me a good direction :)
 

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