java programming

[anuj184]

hi i want to learn two langueses C, and jave . wich should be learn
first.
and why becase i have nothing knwoledge abut it. plz advice me

 

[charlesbos73]

hi i want to learn two langueses C, and jave . wich should be learn
first.
and why becase i have nothing knwoledge abut it. plz advice me

Actually you want to learn three languages, for you want
to start with english.

Meanwhile, I suggest programming using the following
language, which shall suit you much more than Java or
C:

http://lolcode.com/

 

[Lew]

Actually you want to learn three languages, for you want
to start with english [sic].

His English is fine, it is his spelling that was problematic, as is yours.

Start with Java, then learn C.

 

[RedGrittyBrick]

Actually you want to learn three languages, for you want
to start with english.

Meanwhile, I suggest programming using the following
language, which shall suit you much more than Java or
C:

http://lolcode.com/

A KROOL STREAK, U HAZ IT.

I learnt Java before C.

In fact I never did get around to learning C.

From my position of relative ignorance, these would be my reasons for
learning Java first:
- less chance of ingraining bad habits with pointer arithmetic.
- early exposure to Object Orientation.

When learning both, the order may not matter much. For an extra
challenge, learn them in parallel.

 

[Mark Space]

From my position of relative ignorance, these would be my reasons for
learning Java first:
- less chance of ingraining bad habits with pointer arithmetic.
- early exposure to Object Orientation.

Hmm, I learned C first, but these may be good points. Java is a good
place to start as any.

 

[Martin Gregorie]

Hmm, I learned C first, but these may be good points. Java is a good
place to start as any.

I also learned C first, but Java didn't exist then or I'd probably have
started with it. I too would recommend Java as a good first language.

 

[Seamus MacRae]

Actually you want to learn three languages, for you want
to start with english.

How arrogant and condescending. Give the guy a break; his email implies
he's a non-native speaker and his IP also does. (Strangely, though, the
email suggests Italy and the IP India.)

 

[Seamus MacRae]

I also learned C first, but Java didn't exist then or I'd probably have
started with it. I too would recommend Java as a good first language.

Ditto. Me C first, Java didn't exist then, Java is a good first
language. For broad exposure to different programming paradigms, maybe
look at all of C, Smalltalk, Lisp or Scheme, and OCaml after. C's
semi-low-level and lets you get at the hardware and OS API; Smalltalk is
pure OO with closures; Lisp and Scheme are just plain different; OCaml
readily supports pure functional. C and OCaml have strong static typing
like Java, but OCaml does a lot of type inference, making its typing
different, and its type SYSTEM is different in many ways. Smalltalk is
somewhat strongly but dynamically typed. Variables have no types but
objects have types fixed at birth. The effective typing is a bit weaker
though because any object can be sent any message and giving any two
classes identically-callable methods lets you use them polymorphically.
Lisp and Scheme are (I think) weakly and dynamically typed.

Getting compilers/interpreters and IDEs:

For C, gcc is a well known free implementation used for major real-world
software development. You'll want an IDE too, I think NetBeans has good
C support, and you might already have it for your Java work at that time.

Smalltalk has a free, somewhat open source implementation in Squeak.
Squeak includes its own internal development tools (downside: if you
really gum things up, the non-external nature of the debugger can make
debugging difficult!) These tools are graphical, but have their own
mouse semantics and other standards instead of following Windows
conventions, which can make them a bit clunky to use at first. The lack
of true namespaces puts the hurt on Squeak for eventually developing
serious large scale systems (other than Squeak itself) though.

The big flaming Lisp vs. Java thread mentions some Lisp implementations
or you can google it. I'm not sure there are any free Windows
implementations and free Windows decent IDEs with nondinosaurian user
interfaces for it though. Ditto Scheme, except the flame-thread doesn't
name any implementations that I recall, but I DO recall once seeing a
free Windows/portable implementation (with command prompt REPL; dunno
about IDEs).

OCaml you'll have to google. Don't know if there are free Windows
implementations or decent IDEs out there.

 

[Seamus MacRae]

For broad exposure to different programming paradigms, maybe
look at all of C, Smalltalk, Lisp or Scheme, and OCaml after. C's
semi-low-level and lets you get at the hardware and OS API; Smalltalk is
pure OO with closures; Lisp and Scheme are just plain different; OCaml
readily supports pure functional.

Eh. Forgot to mention: Lisp and Scheme and maybe OCaml have closures;
all three have first-class functions, and support functional-style
programming. Scheme and OCaml are more heavily designed for
pure-functional programming than Lisp I think. Clojure has a Lisp/Scheme
style structure and targets the JVM; it can call into Java API libraries
and, I think, one can set up callbacks into Clojure code from Java
(event listeners for Swing GUIs in particular). Combined with JNI calls
from Java this means Clojure can also call into C. I don't know how well
supported it is, or suited to eventual non-toy use, but I think at least
one of NetBeans and Eclipse has a module for it out there somewhere.
Clojure has (as one would hope given the name) closures and supports a
functional style of programming. IIRC it doesn't optimize tail calls
unlike (most, if not all) Lisps and Schemes.

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

hi i want to learn two langueses C, and jave . wich should be learn
first.
and why becase i have nothing knwoledge abut it. plz advice me

Java is a useful language to know, learning Java will give you
an understanding of OOP and you will get some good programming
habits.

C is very useful as well. But the habits are not so good.



The most obvious alternative to Java as first language would
be Pascal, which is simple and also give some good programming
habits.

20 years ago it was common as a first language.

Arne

 

[Eric Sosman]

Hmm, I learned C first, but these may be good points. Java is a good
place to start as any.

The language that taught me the most about O-O was
Common Lisp. Java has more syntactic pleasantries, but
CL is in some ways "purer."

<"Stand by to repel boarders!" "How do you repel
boarders?" "Stop changing the bed linens!">

 

[Lew]

Java is a useful language to know, learning Java will give you
an understanding of OOP and you will get some good programming
habits.

C is very useful as well. But the habits are not so good.



The most obvious alternative to Java as first language would
be Pascal, which is simple and also give some good programming
habits.

20 years ago it was common as a first language.

Then there's this perspective on why Java should not be a first language:

 

[Roedy Green]

hi i want to learn two langueses C, and jave . wich should be learn
first.
and why becase i have nothing knwoledge abut it. plz advice me

I would suggest Java first for the same reason you might learn to
drive an automatic before a stick shift.
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com

"If people become accustomed to lying, they will unconsciously commit every possible wrong deed. Before they can act wickedly, they must lie, and once they begin to lie they will act wickedly without concern."
~ Gautama Buddha

 

[Karl Uppiano]

I also learned C first, but Java didn't exist then or I'd probably have
started with it. I too would recommend Java as a good first language.

Java is a good second language, or third, or let's see... BASIC, FORTRAN,
8080 ML, 6502 ASM, C, DSP56K ML, C++, Java, C#... I guess it's eight and
counting. Java is my favorite so far.

 

[Seamus MacRae]

Java is a good second language, or third, or let's see... BASIC,
FORTRAN, 8080 ML, 6502 ASM, C, DSP56K ML, C++, Java, C#... I guess it's
eight and counting. Java is my favorite so far.

Mine: BASIC, 6502 ASM, Logo, C, Smalltalk, C++, Javascript, Java, and
dribs and drabs of Lisp, Scheme, some domain-specific languages, and a
touch of shell. No C# and proud of it.

 

[Jak]

hi i want to learn two langueses C, and jave . wich should be learn
first.
and why becase i have nothing knwoledge abut it. plz advice me

Firstly, you should take a look this document.
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

 

[RedGrittyBrick]

The language that taught me the most about O-O was
Common Lisp. Java has more syntactic pleasantries, but
CL is in some ways "purer."

Well, if you are going to broaden the question beyond "C or Java first".
The language that taught me the most about OO was Delphi, Previously I'd
struggled and failed to grasp OO with Borlands's Object Pascal. Of
course this was after learning Dartmouth Basic, Algol, PL/1, Fortran IV,
various Assemby languages, Turbo-Pascal and a whole bunch of other 3rds
and 4th generation languages. In many ways Turbo Pascal and Perl were
the most productive languages for me and Delphi and Postscript the most
enjoyable.

If choosing any language now, I'd choose a major mainstream OO language
in broad commercial use. To me that means something like Java or C#. I'd
guess that C# may be cleaner in some ways than Java, perhaps with a
little less historical baggage and having learned from some of the Java
language creators' early mistakes. Lisp would be a long way down my
list, something I'd maybe learn as a recreation, not as part of a career
plan.

 

[Seamus MacRae]

Firstly, you should take a look this document.
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Nice. Someone comes here with a sincere question, if not great English,
and you respond with a "clever" insult?

 

[RedGrittyBrick]

Then there's this perspective on why Java should not be a first language:

Interesting article, thanks for pointing it out.

It reminds me of "The camel has two humps".
http://www.cs.mdx.ac.uk/research/PhDArea/saeed/paper1.pdf

 

[Tom Anderson]

Well, if you are going to broaden the question beyond "C or Java first". The
language that taught me the most about OO was Delphi, Previously I'd
struggled and failed to grasp OO with Borlands's Object Pascal. Of course
this was after learning Dartmouth Basic, Algol, PL/1, Fortran IV, various
Assemby languages, Turbo-Pascal and a whole bunch of other 3rds and 4th
generation languages. In many ways Turbo Pascal and Perl were the most
productive languages for me and Delphi and Postscript the most enjoyable.

Smalltalk.

Simula!

ALGOL 60!!!

tom