Learning Perl

Y

yamuna

I have windows XP at home, i.e no Unix or Linux. I have no access to
Unix/Linux.

In order to run Perl codes , what should I install?
 
T

Tassilo v. Parseval

Also sprach yamuna:
It's safe, right. Windows pop-up said "This files does not have a valid
digital signature that verifies it spublisher..."

It is safe, yes. However, if you want to learn Perl and you're possibly
more familiar with the Windows environment (which is what your posting
suggests) I wouldn't use cygwin for it. cygwin is a UNIX environment
ported to Windows and it's easier to learn one thing than to learn two
things simultaneously.

I'd therefore go for ActivePerl or IndigoPerl as it has been suggested
elsewhere in this thread. After that you could consider using perl under
cygwin or even install a real Linux. Perl is a lot more fun and also
easier if you have access to a C compiler and a make-tool.

Tassilo
 
J

Jürgen Exner

yamuna said:
I have windows XP at home, i.e no Unix or Linux. I have no access to
Unix/Linux.

In order to run Perl codes , what should I install?

_THE_ standard Perl distribution for Windows is ActivePerl fromn
ActiveState, see http://activestate.com/
It is free, too.

jue
 
Y

yamuna

Brian said:
Yes you do, it is freely downloadable.

Yes, yes, yes. I am trying to reach to that stage of having a PC with
Linux. It's not $$ issue. Long story.
 
Y

yamuna

No, it's not safe. I

I am glad I asked. I'd rather be cautious and play safe, i.e not lose
time fixing too many unexpected problem and proceed with my goal.
If you trust Windows pop-ups over the people in this newsgroup,
I'm wondering why you asked us.
I don't trust those but
life's situation has been pretty bad and my project to build a PC on
my own (bought parts last year June) , put Linux had been postponed I
am stuck with windows still. I just need to get started on Perl but I
will get to linux and also rid of IE. I have to do it with my pace; I
will get there.
That said, let me provide you with some links,
Thanks. I did google search and saw activePerl but it helps to know
which one is good for what purpose, etc.

<snip>
 
J

John Bokma

Tassilo v. Parseval said:
cygwin or even install a real Linux. Perl is a lot more fun and also
easier if you have access to a C compiler and a make-tool.

For Windows there is nmake (
http://johnbokma.com/perl/make-for-windows.html )

and it was just last month or so that for the very first time I had to
compile some C (PAR) for Perl on Windows.

In short: for learning Perl you probably don't need C (which probably has
to be learned as well) for the next few years. Make, maybe, but nmake
should do the trick unless you do need a C compiler.

Wrt cygwin, I agree. Have been using it for several months, and if you are
an XP user, just don't install it. And if you're a Unix user: you might be
better of without cygwin and XP, or you might be able to get away by
installing some GNU ports (ls, rm, etc.). (IMHO).
 
Y

yamuna

In short: for learning Perl you probably don't need C (which probably has
to be learned as well) for the next few years. Make, maybe, but nmake
should do the trick unless you do need a C compiler.

I know C++ (not a pro but decent) and a bit of C terms. Plan to get
Linux and hope to learn system programming using C. (These are all my
dreams.)

Thanks.
 
T

Tassilo v. Parseval

Also sprach John Bokma:
For Windows there is nmake (
http://johnbokma.com/perl/make-for-windows.html )

and it was just last month or so that for the very first time I had to
compile some C (PAR) for Perl on Windows.

In short: for learning Perl you probably don't need C (which probably has
to be learned as well) for the next few years. Make, maybe, but nmake
should do the trick unless you do need a C compiler.

I mentioned the C compiler with respect to the installation of some
modules. nmake would be the first thing to install next to ActivePerl
because ppm is IMHO only an extremely poor replacement for the CPAN
shell. Most of the time it doesn't work and if it worked then the module
to be installed is most likely not available as ppm package.
Wrt cygwin, I agree. Have been using it for several months, and if you are
an XP user, just don't install it. And if you're a Unix user: you might be
better of without cygwin and XP, or you might be able to get away by
installing some GNU ports (ls, rm, etc.). (IMHO).

cygwin is just like ppm another poor replacement for the real thing.

Tassilo
 
A

Alan J. Flavell

Are you chaps really answering the question (at the assumed level of
the those who are likely to ask it), or are you just having a
discussion at your own level?

Anyone considering starting Perl, and wanting to work on Windows,
indeed has these choices, between a Win-native Perl (such as
ActiveState Perl, or the Indigoperl package for those who happen to
want an easy CGI bundle including Perl and Apache) on the one hand, or
Cygwin on the other hand.

But they aren't really in competition to each other. Anyone wanting
to go the Cygwin route should take a good look at what it is and what
they'd be getting. To put it briefly: a unix-like environment inside
Windows (and then, Perl inside that, along with a vast range of free
application and development software). If that's what they want, then
go ahead - I'd certainly install it, for lots of good reasons - but
I wouldn't see it as an /alternative/ to native Windows Perl.

On the other hand, if the questioner just wants to get started, and
wants to use Perl to drive Windows applications in a Windows-
flavoured environment, then a native Perl such as ActiveState would be
a good choice now. Btw. that comes with quite a neat HTML-ised
interface to the Perl documentation, both the core and the
Win-specific. Later, one can certainly consider installing Cygwin
Perl, and having the best of both worlds without having to leave
Windows. (I'm going to have to add that running a real OS is yet
another option, but I'm trying to answer on the assumption of a
questioner who wants to stick with Windows as the actual OS).
For Windows there is nmake (
http://johnbokma.com/perl/make-for-windows.html )
OK

and it was just last month or so that for the very first time I had
to compile some C (PAR) for Perl on Windows.

Haven't done that myself, I must admit: AIUI if you want to build Perl
stuff for native Windows, then you need the same C compiler as one's
Perl installation was built with, nicht wahr? Which might mean a
chargeable licensed product. I've no problem in principle with paying
the money, but it's a considerable drag keeping track of software
licences...
In short: for learning Perl you probably don't need C (which
probably has to be learned as well) for the next few years. Make,
maybe, but nmake should do the trick unless you do need a C
compiler.

Indeed. And as Tassilo rightly said about native Perl versus Cygwin,
it's easier to learn one thing at once than two. Put Cygwin off for
later - maybe even after having sampled Perl under a unix-like OS such
as linux.
Wrt cygwin, I agree. Have been using it for several months, and if
you are an XP user, just don't install it.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Pardon me?

As a matter of fact we install the cygwin core on all our windows XP
systems (supported desktops and laptops), if only to get the free X
Windows server, so that our Win-based users can also work comfortably
with the linux systems. Having done that, the users can have as many
of the cygwin applications as they want - Perl not excluded.

hope this makes some kind of sense.
 
T

Tassilo v. Parseval

Also sprach Alan J. Flavell:
Are you chaps really answering the question (at the assumed level of
the those who are likely to ask it), or are you just having a
discussion at your own level?

Isn't it generally assumed to be accidental if a question of a poster is
in fact answered? ;-)

Having said that, I wouldn't consider it a discussion at our own level.
I genuinly believe that cygwin should not be recommended to a beginner,
much less so to someone beginning to learn Perl. So I suggested one of
the native Windows distributions even though I know at least a few
shortcomings of ActivePerl. I reckon those quirks are less annoying
to a beginner than some of cygwin's peculiarities.
Haven't done that myself, I must admit: AIUI if you want to build Perl
stuff for native Windows, then you need the same C compiler as one's
Perl installation was built with, nicht wahr?

This is what they say although in my experience this is not necessarily
true. At least on Solaris I was able to make modules run with both the
gcc and SUN's native compiler...for the same perl.
Which might mean a chargeable licensed product. I've no problem in
principle with paying the money, but it's a considerable drag keeping
track of software licences...

MS now distributes a compiler kit for no charge which can be used with
ActivePerl. However, and so I am back to the original point I raised,
it's still not always trivial as many modules appear to be written with
the gcc in mind and thus make use of extenions not part of any
C-standard.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Pardon me?

[...]

I have reasons for some grievances of my own when it comes to cygwin.
But those are better discussed somewhere else.

Tassilo
 
J

John Bokma

Tassilo v. Parseval said:
Also sprach John Bokma:


I mentioned the C compiler with respect to the installation of some
modules. nmake would be the first thing to install next to ActivePerl
because ppm is IMHO only an extremely poor replacement for the CPAN
shell.

You might be right. However, it works most of the times here. I rarely
have to use nmake. As for a C compiler, only recently with PAR.
Most of the time it doesn't work

Weird, my experience is: most of the time it works :)
and if it worked then the
module to be installed is most likely not available as ppm package.

Huh? And AFAIK, you can use the CPAN shell with ActiveState. I stick
with ppm for now.
cygwin is just like ppm another poor replacement for the real thing.

Yup, the reason that I removed it was that it was confusing to me most
of the time :)
 
J

John Bokma

Alan J. Flavell said:
Are you chaps really answering the question (at the assumed level of
the those who are likely to ask it), or are you just having a
discussion at your own level?

Is this Usenet? :)

[ snip ]
Haven't done that myself, I must admit: AIUI if you want to build Perl
stuff for native Windows, then you need the same C compiler as one's
Perl installation was built with, nicht wahr? Which might mean a
chargeable licensed product.

No, since MS makes the command line stuff available for free. That's how
I got it working :-D.
I've no problem in principle with paying
the money, but it's a considerable drag keeping track of software
licences...

You don't, see above :).
Pardon me?

I think you deleted the IMHO part. Also, it was an answer to the OP, who
wants to learn Perl ;-)
As a matter of fact we install the cygwin core on all our windows XP
systems (supported desktops and laptops), if only to get the free X
Windows server, so that our Win-based users can also work comfortably
with the linux systems. Having done that, the users can have as many
of the cygwin applications as they want - Perl not excluded.

hope this makes some kind of sense.

Yes, it does. Differences in requirements. Also, why not VNC?
 
J

John Bokma

Tassilo v. Parseval said:
I have reasons for some grievances of my own when it comes to cygwin.
But those are better discussed somewhere else.

:-D

I snipped a bit too much, I am curious as of the short comings of
ActiveState (or other Window versions) Perl.
 
A

Alan J. Flavell

I think you deleted the IMHO part.

With respect, I think you expressed yourself too cryptically for a
clear understanding of your intention.
Also, it was an answer to the OP, who wants to learn Perl ;-)

I already agreed that for a Windows user, installing a native Windows
port such as ActiveState is probably the best first move, so it seems
we are in agreement.

I just didn't understand your specific reference to "XP" (as opposed
to Windows in general, maybe).

[...]
Yes, it does. Differences in requirements. Also, why not VNC?

An interesting question, but would seem to take us a bit too far off
topic for this group, I fear. Perhaps my throwaway remark explaining
X as our original motivation for installing cygwin base was itself too
far off-topic - if so, then my apologies.
 

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