MVC in Python for web app dev

[m.wanstall]

Please let me state off the cuff that I'm not after a big "Python Vs
Ruby" war or anything here! I'm trying to make the switch to Python for
my web development work as I've been using it for quite some time for
other programming work (albeit mainly hobby and personal interest
projects) as I'm getting to the stage where the need for a real MVC
capable language framework is a must simply to save some time and PHP
just isn't cutting it (although CakePHP is all right and the new Zend
framework looks to hold some promise).

Here's where I'm in a pickle! I would prefer to stick with Python as I
am enjoying it BUT Ruby on Rails is simply too hard to deny a look in.
The ease that it provides in generating scaffolding and the intuitive
templating engine is just plain good, adding in to this the RadRails
Eclipse plugin for a beautiful IDE (I know, I know how great
vim/emacs/whatever is but still, if RadRails is going to save some time
frankly I'm liking it already!). I'm aware that Pylons is trying to
compete with Rails in the near future but I'm just not clear on how
directly they are trying to compete...will Pylons have the same
generation functions and other time saving goodies that RoR has or am I
barking up the wrong tree?

Basically I'm not going to abandon Python because I find it fits me
better as a language than Ruby, but when I need to be able to develop
good, stable MVC web apps in a small amount of time I don't want to be
wasting my time waiting for Python to deliver something it's just not
going to (I also forgot to mention I don't want to run on a custom
little webserver, I prefer the piece of mind I have with Apache - in
true LAMP style ).

So I'm asking for ANY opinions here! For datadriven web apps that need
to be able to support small and large scale distros, can Python deliver
or is RoR the way to go?

Thanks for any help you guys throw at me!! Oh, and any examples like
current big webapps to back up a particular point of view would be
greatly appreciated too! Thanks!

 

[Rune Strand]

Please let me state off the cuff that I'm not after a big "Python Vs
Ruby" war or anything here! I'm trying to make the switch to Python for
my web development work as I've been using it for quite some time for
other programming work (albeit mainly hobby and personal interest
projects) as I'm getting to the stage where the need for a real MVC
capable language framework is a must simply to save some time and PHP
just isn't cutting it (although CakePHP is all right and the new Zend
framework looks to hold some promise).

Here's where I'm in a pickle! I would prefer to stick with Python as I
am enjoying it BUT Ruby on Rails is simply too hard to deny a look in.
The ease that it provides in generating scaffolding and the intuitive
templating engine is just plain good, adding in to this the RadRails
Eclipse plugin for a beautiful IDE (I know, I know how great
vim/emacs/whatever is but still, if RadRails is going to save some time
frankly I'm liking it already!). I'm aware that Pylons is trying to
compete with Rails in the near future but I'm just not clear on how
directly they are trying to compete...will Pylons have the same
generation functions and other time saving goodies that RoR has or am I
barking up the wrong tree?

Basically I'm not going to abandon Python because I find it fits me
better as a language than Ruby, but when I need to be able to develop
good, stable MVC web apps in a small amount of time I don't want to be
wasting my time waiting for Python to deliver something it's just not
going to (I also forgot to mention I don't want to run on a custom
little webserver, I prefer the piece of mind I have with Apache - in
true LAMP style ).

So I'm asking for ANY opinions here! For datadriven web apps that need
to be able to support small and large scale distros, can Python deliver
or is RoR the way to go?

Thanks for any help you guys throw at me!! Oh, and any examples like
current big webapps to back up a particular point of view would be
greatly appreciated too! Thanks!

http://www.djangoproject.com/
http://www.turbogears.org/

 

[m.wanstall]

Thanks Rune. I've already checked out Django and TG and have found both
the projects to be a little misguided. I think the one great thing they
have over Rails is the use of SQLObject because the implicit mapping of
data models via the "plural" approach of Rails is a bit of a quirk to
me, I just don't like it, it leaves too much room for human error due
to lack of control.

Having said that, neither TG or Django seem to have the learning
material available on an equivilent standard to Rails. Maybe it's just
because they're more immature and thus Rails has got the head start
here.

I guess more than pointing out a few URLs I was looking for some
peoples honest opinion on why they would chose one over the other
(besides the basis of language alone). I'm just trying to source the
most viable option at the moment, trying to find something to offer
quickly without resorting to *shudders* Spring or the like.

 

[Robert Hicks]

http://www.myghty.org/

That one is excellent.

Robert

 

[Bruno Desthuilliers]

(e-mail address removed) a écrit :

Thanks Rune. I've already checked out Django and TG and have found both
the projects to be a little misguided. I think the one great thing they
have over Rails is the use of SQLObject

Then you haven't really checked Django - it doesn't use SQLObject.

Having said that, neither TG or Django seem to have the learning
material available on an equivilent standard to Rails.

I found Django's doc to be mostly good, even if a bit terse on some
points (but then there's the mailing-list).

Maybe it's just
because they're more immature and thus Rails has got the head start
here.

Django has been 'extracted' from existing software (3+ years of use in
production), so I wouldn't call it 'immature'. It certainly has warts
(the most obvious one - the ORM - will be fixed in 0.92, that is in few
weeks), but I found it mostly usable, and (this ORM issue apart, but
transition should not be a big issue) stable enough to start using it on
real-life projects.

I guess more than pointing out a few URLs I was looking for some
peoples honest opinion on why they would chose one over the other
(besides the basis of language alone).

Well, the 'language' criteria is already enough for me. Ruby is fine
too, but I've already been programming in Python for 5+ years - talking
about 'head start' !-)

 

[Don Taylor]

I'm aware that Pylons is trying to
compete with Rails in the near future but I'm just not clear on how
directly they are trying to compete...will Pylons have the same
generation functions and other time saving goodies that RoR has or am I
barking up the wrong tree?

Thanks for the reference to Pylon:

http://pylonshq.com/

I had not heard of it before and it looks promising.

Have you asked your questions ('the same generation functions and other
time saving goodies') of the Pylon folks?

Don.