Offsite JSP

[Roedy Green]

I have always encouraged people do download a mirror copy of my
website and keep it locally, for speed, local indexing, and for access
when my site in unavailable.

I also figured this would make it hard for one of my enemies to
destroy every last copy of my website.

However, if I start using JSP, the parts of the page generated with
JSP will just be gibberish if people read the unprocessed pages
offline.

I wondered what people do in this situation.

Is there a way to do markup so that you get a default display if the
page is not yet JSP-expanded? Must you periodically expand all web
pages with JSP and capture them for offsite reading?
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com

"Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability,"
~ Edsger Wybe Dijkstra (born: 1930-05-11 died: 2002-08-06 at age: 72)

 

[Qu0ll]

I also figured this would make it hard for one of my enemies to
destroy every last copy of my website.

Are they that out to get you? Why?

--
And loving it,

-Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
_________________________________________________
(e-mail address removed)
[Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]

 

[Qu0ll]

Are they that out to get you? Why?

Ah, I can see from the other thread that you have more than your fair share
of "anti-admirers".

--
And loving it,

-Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
_________________________________________________
(e-mail address removed)
[Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

I have always encouraged people do download a mirror copy of my
website and keep it locally, for speed, local indexing, and for access
when my site in unavailable.

I also figured this would make it hard for one of my enemies to
destroy every last copy of my website.

However, if I start using JSP, the parts of the page generated with
JSP will just be gibberish if people read the unprocessed pages
offline.

I wondered what people do in this situation.

Is there a way to do markup so that you get a default display if the
page is not yet JSP-expanded? Must you periodically expand all web
pages with JSP and capture them for offsite reading?

If the web site is actually dynamic then the only solution
that makes sense is to have users download the war and deploy
it on their own servlet container (including running
SQL scripts to setup database).

If the web site is not dynamic then JSP is not the right
technology.

Arne

 

[Roedy Green]

Are they that out to get you? Why?

A number of reasons.
I strenuously oppose the Afghanistan and Iraq wars. I most definitely
do NOT support the troops. I explain why they are war criminals.
I think there was inside collusion in 9/11.
I oppose "religious ceremonies" that involve whale sacrifice
I am gay
I have HIV
I think our capitalist economic system needs some tweaking (I am a
heretic).
I gave general liberal values.
I sometimes wrote scathing comments about computer hardware and
software (not a problem now, but it was when I was a newspaper
columnist with much more clout).

If you are curious at some of the reaction to my writings see
http://mindprod.com/feedback/feedback.html
or the blogs
http://endtheiraqwar.blogspot.com/
http://911insidejob.blogspot.com/
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com

"Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability,"
~ Edsger Wybe Dijkstra (born: 1930-05-11 died: 2002-08-06 at age: 72)

 

[Qu0ll]

I strenuously oppose the Afghanistan and Iraq wars. I most definitely
do NOT support the troops. I explain why they are war criminals.

I am not sure I would describe the troops as war criminals but you, me and
most of the world oppose the wars.

I think there was inside collusion in 9/11.

So do many people. I don't have enough information to come to a conclusion
either way.

I oppose "religious ceremonies" that involve whale sacrifice

Surely most people do too.

I am gay

Does anyone really care about that? It's said that 10% of the world's
population are 100% heterosexual, 10% are 100% homosexual and everyone else
is somewhere in between.

I have HIV

Well that's unfortunate but hardly a reason for people to attack you.

I think our capitalist economic system needs some tweaking (I am a
heretic).

Obviously it does need some tweaking!

I gave general liberal values.

So do at least half of the population.

I sometimes wrote scathing comments about computer hardware and
software (not a problem now, but it was when I was a newspaper
columnist with much more clout).

Thousands do exactly the same thing.

Overall, you sound like a typical human being. We are all different but
similar in so many ways. I don't see any reason why you should be attacked
in the way you describe from these reasons.

--
And loving it,

-Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
_________________________________________________
(e-mail address removed)
[Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]

 

[Roedy Green]

I don't understand that.

I have been pondering this as I fall asleep.

I need to distribute my site in three forms:

1. dynamic. The user just wants to read the page now on the browser.
He is not interested in how the page was constructed. All comments and
markup can be stripped. He just sees the final result of JSP
processing. The page can be compacted, squeezing out all unneeded
whitespace.

2. offsite reading. This is like 1, but updates arrive via the
Replicator. It will not be as dynamic. It only updates when the user
does an update fetch with the Replicator.

3. the original. This is the text I compose with, including comments,
static (pre-upload) macros and JSP markup. It is not directly readable
in a browser. I can optionally expand the static macros locally to
view them, but I would need a local JSP engine to view the JSP
expansions.

I think the way to do this will be to distribute the three forms like
this:

1. via a JSP server than works on HTML with pre-expanded macros for
non-time sensitive macros.

2. Perhaps twice a day expand the entire website with JSP and capture
the output, then untouch it to redate it back if it has not really
changed, then prepare a the Replicator updates. This not as good as
what I do now. Currently, the Replicator is always 100% up to date.
see http://mindprod.com/webstart.html#REPLICATOR
I can keep track of just which web pages need to be rebuilt. The
problem is JSP will change pages very frequently with trivial changes
that don't need to be tracked by the Replicator, e.g. quote of the
day. Perhaps my JSP can be clever and generate more stable HTML for
Replicator distribution.

3. distribute the raw markup in a Subversion repository, but so I can
more easily track changes, and so people can see how the web pages
were constructed, without the overhead of the scaffoldings being sent
out with every dynamic page.

--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com

"Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability,"
~ Edsger Wybe Dijkstra (born: 1930-05-11 died: 2002-08-06 at age: 72)

 

[Alessio Stalla]

I am not sure I would describe the troops as war criminals but you, me and
most of the world oppose the wars.


So do many people.  I don't have enough information to come to a conclusion
either way.


Surely most people do too.


Does anyone really care about that?  It's said that 10% of the world's
population are 100% heterosexual, 10% are 100% homosexual and everyone else
is somewhere in between.


Well that's unfortunate but hardly a reason for people to attack you.


Obviously it does need some tweaking!


So do at least half of the population.


Thousands do exactly the same thing.

Overall, you sound like a typical human being.  We are all different but
similar in so many ways.  I don't see any reason why you should be attacked
in the way you describe from these reasons.

He sounds like a sensible human being. Whether you consider that to be
"typical" or not may depend on your level of trust in the human race.
Mine is constantly dropping lately.

Apart from that, Roedy definitely has something which is not typical:
he writes freely about his convinctions on a public place which is
supposedly visited by many people. I think that is admirable, but
unfortunately it has the side effect of upsetting all kinds of random
people which are offended by those who dare to think differently.

 

[Qu0ll]

[...]

He sounds like a sensible human being. Whether you consider that to be
"typical" or not may depend on your level of trust in the human race.
Mine is constantly dropping lately.

I have a lot of faith in the human race despite the best efforts of a number
of people.

Apart from that, Roedy definitely has something which is not typical:
he writes freely about his convinctions on a public place which is
supposedly visited by many people. I think that is admirable, but
unfortunately it has the side effect of upsetting all kinds of random
people which are offended by those who dare to think differently.

Ah yes, speaking out. Well, in the appropriate forum (and I stress that bit
Roedy!), speaking out should not incite the kind of responses Roedy was
describing. Having said that, there's a group of people whom react
violently to anyone who dares to declare an opinion different from theirs in
a public place. That's very unfortunate but I hope it doesn't discourage
people like Roedy from expressing their passionate views (in the appropriate
forum of course!).

--
And loving it,

-Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
_________________________________________________
(e-mail address removed)
[Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]

 

[Roedy Green]

Surely most people do too.

not the Makah in nearby Washington state. Most of them consider any
opposition to the killing as racism.

--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com

"People think of security as a noun, something you go buy. In reality, it’s an abstract concept like happiness. Openness is unbelievably helpful to security."
~ James Gosling (born: 1955-05-18 age: 54), inventor of Java.

 

[Roedy Green]

Does anyone really care about that? It's said that 10% of the world's
population are 100% heterosexual, 10% are 100% homosexual and everyone else
is somewhere in between.

It is more that I am openly and unapologetically gay, and I mock
religious superstitions that people use to justify anti-gay bigotry.

Anti-gay and pro-war tend to go together.

Most of my attackers I would guess have IQs below 70. They behave a
bit like the stereotypes in Deliverance.

Partner is visiting family in Alabama. I'm assured these sorts of
attitude are majority in that part of the world.
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com

"People think of security as a noun, something you go buy. In reality, it’s an abstract concept like happiness. Openness is unbelievably helpful to security."
~ James Gosling (born: 1955-05-18 age: 54), inventor of Java.

 

[Roedy Green]

Overall, you sound like a typical human being. We are all different but
similar in so many ways. I don't see any reason why you should be attacked
in the way you describe from these reasons.

It is probably two things.


1. I tend to state controversial ideas earlier than others. When I
started gay lib, would guess 99% of people were opposed to me,
including the gays. Now the things I said back then would sound
conventional. My early works were later criticised for being too
conservative.


2. I write quite a bit. I write on a website so that people who are
not looking for my sorts of statements, stumble on them. I write under
my real name, a unique name easy to track down. People make more
violent threats on the phone where they figure there would never be
legal repercussions.

A website is sort of chip on your shoulder you dare the rest of the
world to knock off. If you say anything of consequence, there will be
people willing to resort to any extreme (consider pro-choice
assassinations) to shut them up.

I am quite disappointed that Vista still requires security updates
every week. I would have hoped that by now OSes would have been
redesigned with very simple interfaces where the general public could
potentially attack.
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com

"People think of security as a noun, something you go buy. In reality, it’s an abstract concept like happiness. Openness is unbelievably helpful to security."
~ James Gosling (born: 1955-05-18 age: 54), inventor of Java.

 

[Roedy Green]

That's very unfortunate but I hope it doesn't discourage
people like Roedy from expressing their passionate views (in the appropriate
forum of course!).

Attacking a website electronically is a form of vandalism, but it has
higher caché. People who do it see it as a game of wits. If they
win, you fully deserved to be silenced. The anonymity
and unlikely prosecution somehow gives the crime greater
respectability.

As for phoning and writing threatening emails, it is a way of venting
frustration with the entire world that refuses to agree with your
world view. If people are really going to kill you, they are not about
to warn you or provide any clues to the police.

It is not just right-wingers who do this. I write the National
Geographic, bawling them out whenever they put out creationism or
Christian lore masquerading as science or history. I have never
threatened violence, but I did cancel a gift subscription. They
receive the brunt of my frustration with ALL fundamentalists. They are
like a lightning rod for all phony science.

In like manner, I am a lightning rod for people angry at gays,
atheists, liberals, war protestors, bleeding hearts, foreigners,
people who question the superiority and perfection of Americans...

Looking at the bright side, I am well hardened by now. When the abuse
comes at me, it does no damage. Had it gone to someone else unused to
it, they could have been badly frightened. The criticism I get here in
this newsgroup stings far more. Because it is usually well thought
out, I can't just dismiss it.

“The attempt to silence a man is the greatest honour you can bestow on
him. It means that you recognise his superiority to yourself.”
~ Joseph Sobran
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com

"People think of security as a noun, something you go buy. In reality, it’s an abstract concept like happiness. Openness is unbelievably helpful to security."
~ James Gosling (born: 1955-05-18 age: 54), inventor of Java.

 

[Qu0ll]

It is more that I am openly and unapologetically gay, and I mock
religious superstitions that people use to justify anti-gay bigotry.

Anti-gay and pro-war tend to go together.

Most of my attackers I would guess have IQs below 70. They behave a
bit like the stereotypes in Deliverance.

Partner is visiting family in Alabama. I'm assured these sorts of
attitude are majority in that part of the world.

It all sounds terribly petty to me.

--
And loving it,

-Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
_________________________________________________
(e-mail address removed)
[Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]

 

[Roedy Green]

It all sounds terribly petty to me.

I have often puzzled that humans feel most self-righteous when
regulating the behaviour of others that has zero effect on them, e.g.
sex, gay marriage, marijuana use, oral sex, contraception,
pornography, the adultery of strangers, religious ceremonies...

This is so weird, when you consider people do so many things that DO
adversely affect each other.
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com

"People think of security as a noun, something you go buy. In reality, it’s an abstract concept like happiness. Openness is unbelievably helpful to security."
~ James Gosling (born: 1955-05-18 age: 54), inventor of Java.

 

[Neil]

Regarding your technical question, if I need to copy a dynamic web
site into HTML, I use wget on Linux to crawl the site and save it to a
local folder. You can probably automate some scripts to do that for
you.

Regarding your problems with closed minded people, I am sorry you are
getting so much trouble. I dont understand why people feel the need to
pushish someone for having a counter-opinion

 

[Qu0ll]

I have often puzzled that humans feel most self-righteous when
regulating the behaviour of others that has zero effect on them, e.g.
sex, gay marriage, marijuana use, oral sex, contraception,
pornography, the adultery of strangers, religious ceremonies...

This is so weird, when you consider people do so many things that DO
adversely affect each other.

While I disagree with some of the views you hold Roedy, I will vehemently
defend your right to have them.

--
And loving it,

-Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
_________________________________________________
(e-mail address removed)
[Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]

 

[Martin Gregorie]

Regarding your technical question, if I need to copy a dynamic web site
into HTML, I use wget on Linux to crawl the site and save it to a local
folder. You can probably automate some scripts to do that for you.

wget also has Windows ports and is available as a Windows binary. See
http://www.gnu.org/software/wget/ and look at the wget Wgiki for Windows
and DOS downloads.

Regarding your problems with closed minded people, I am sorry you are
getting so much trouble. I dont understand why people feel the need to
punish someone for having a counter-opinion.

Doing that seems to provide some sort of security blanket for inadequate
personalities.

 

[Tom Anderson]

It is more that I am openly and unapologetically gay, and I mock
religious superstitions that people use to justify anti-gay bigotry.

I know we're OT as **** now, but this is still funny:

http://thedenverelement.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/gayMarriageChart-large.png

I love that the counterpoint to (paraphrasing) "gay marriage debases the
institution of marriage" is "Britney Spears".

tom