Perl 6 architecture question

[dterrors]

Will perl 6 have some kind of web-host-friendly architecture like PHP
has? So that it can run in an apache module mode that ISP's can
actually install on shared servers? (As opposed to mod_perl which
really can't be installed on a shared server.)

And, similarly, will it have like a $_SESSION type of thing, like PHP
has?

I used to be a perl coder but I gave it up for the (inferior) PHP
because every client I had who was on a shared server had PHP module
installed but perl was only cgi. Is perl 6 addressing any of that?

 

[brian d foy]

I used to be a perl coder but I gave it up for the (inferior) PHP
because every client I had who was on a shared server had PHP module
installed but perl was only cgi. Is perl 6 addressing any of that?

Well, to get the same thing, you'd end up with the same restrictions
and lack of features. Shared servers could easily install mod_perl and
limits its functionality to output filters, but what's the point? You
either choose to have a lot of control or to share resources with
people who do things differently than you do.

This problem is as solveable in Perl 5 as it will be in Perl 6. It's
not the language that does anything fancy but the things that people
build on top of it.

 

[John Bokma]

Well, to get the same thing, you'd end up with the same restrictions
and lack of features. Shared servers could easily install mod_perl and
limits its functionality to output filters, but what's the point? You
either choose to have a lot of control or to share resources with
people who do things differently than you do.

This problem is as solveable in Perl 5 as it will be in Perl 6. It's
not the language that does anything fancy but the things that people
build on top of it.

Wouldn't it be nice to have mod_parrot and being able to run Python, PHP,
Perl etc. ?

 

[Jeff Stampes]

Wouldn't it be nice to have mod_parrot and being able to run Python, PHP,
Perl etc. ?

http://www.smashing.org/mod_parrot/

No experience, just sharing my Googling with ya'

~Jeff

 

[John Bokma]

http://www.smashing.org/mod_parrot/

No experience, just sharing my Googling with ya'

Yes, I know about mod_parrot. But the question is: is it really going to
happen? IIRC some people work on PHP for parrot, but is it all going to
happen?

 

[dterrors]

Well, to get the same thing, you'd end up with the same restrictions
and lack of features. Shared servers could easily install mod_perl and
limits its functionality to output filters, but what's the point? You

Really? Shared serves could easily install mod_perl? Have you been isp
hunting lately? Why do so few of them run mod_perl in a shared
environment? Hell, why do none of them run mod_perl in a shared
environment? Is the entire web hosting business just all idiots, every
one of them?

 

[it_says_BALLS_on_your forehead]

Hell, why do none of them run mod_perl in a shared
environment? is that true? why?
Is the entire web hosting business just all idiots, every
one of them?

no, i don't think so.

 

[James Taylor]

Really? Shared serves could easily install mod_perl? Have you been
isp hunting lately? Why do so few of them run mod_perl in a shared
environment? Hell, why do none of them run mod_perl in a shared
environment?

Isn't there an issue with mod_perl only providing one global namespace,
or at least only one interpreter, shared by all users? I think I heard
this was a potential security hole. Of course, this is off the top of my
head and so I may be propagating disinformation. Hopefully someone will
explain where I might have heard that rumour and why it's badly wrong.

 

[brian d foy]

My best guess is that they're users don't want it because the sharing
restrictions limit mod_perl so much that you might as well use PHP.
Beyond that, ISPs are businesses and they do things that make business
sense. You might want mod_perl, but most people don't. For such a small
market, they don't need to find and pay someone who can understand
mod_perl administration.

If you need mod_perl, buy one of the dedicated hosting packages.

Isn't there an issue with mod_perl only providing one global namespace,
or at least only one interpreter, shared by all users?

PHP has the same issue. It's not like everyone gets their own apache
instance. Things such as PHP can get around that by limiting what you
can do, which is what mod_perl would have to do to be as safe. At that
point, mod_perl becomes useless to you.

 

[dterrors]

If you need mod_perl, buy one of the dedicated hosting packages.

That sentence, right there, is the reason why PHP took off. Sun uses
the same logic. As a result, more and more people are using php, and
less and less are using java and perl. A lot of web sites (not all),
start out on shared accounts and then get traffic and go dedicated.
Shared is the seed and dedicated is the tree. The seed comes first.
And if your seed is planted in php, guess what, you'll probably get a
php tree. I swear, the perl community and sun are shooting themselves
in the foot.

 

[Matt Garrish]

That sentence, right there, is the reason why PHP took off. Sun uses
the same logic. As a result, more and more people are using php, and
less and less are using java and perl.

More and more weekend hackers, perhaps, but not corporations. Most
high-volume sites have their own servers, and don't use PHP. I only know of
one company that is going that route, and it's only as an interim to moving
to Java (and everyone except a couple of high-ups think the PHP stage is
going to fail miserably, but that's another story...).

And if PHP grows up and becomes the de facto Web standard, good for it. I'll
still keep using Perl for all the non-Web tasks I always have.

Matt