Python Forum

[pyDev]

Hello,

I would like to let the community know that there is a new web-based
forum for Python enthusiasts over at PythonForum.org (http://
pythonforum.org). Web-based forums is a preferred method by Python
newcomers to get help in exploring the world of Python and programming
overall. The main goal of PythonForum.org is to popularize Python by
welcoming all newcomers. Recently the forum got "attacked" with
questions by users just starting out with Python. I hope here will be
someone ready to welcome and help newcomers to enter the beautiful
world of Python.


Thank you,
Einars

 

[Simon Brunning]

I hope here will be
someone ready to welcome and help newcomers to enter the beautiful
world of Python.

Just send them here, or to
<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor>. We'll be happy to
help.

 

[Stefan Behnel]

pyDev, 02.06.2010 10:04:

I would like to let the community know that there is a new web-based
forum for Python enthusiasts over at PythonForum.org (http://
pythonforum.org). Web-based forums is a preferred method by Python
newcomers to get help in exploring the world of Python and programming
overall.

It's not how the English speaking community works, though. There are two
main mailing lists (mirrored as/from newsgroups) around which the larger
community gathers: python-list (c.l.py) and python-tutor. I doubt (or
rather put my hope against it) that a forum will attract a critical mass of
Python cracks to make it attractive to newbees, and I would certainly
prefer an effort to get them into joining python-tutor instead. There is
not much to gain from splitting the community.

Stefan

 

[Bruno Desthuilliers]

pyDev a écrit :

Hello,

I would like to let the community know that there is a new web-based
forum for Python enthusiasts over at PythonForum.org (http://
pythonforum.org).

YetAnotherUselessWebForum

Web-based forums is a preferred method by Python
newcomers to get help

Oh yeah ? Chapter and verse, please ?

Do the world a favour : replace your whole forum with a static page
explaining how to join the "official" MLs and/or c.l.py.

in exploring the world of Python and programming
overall. The main goal of PythonForum.org is to popularize Python by
welcoming all newcomers.

Newcomers have always been welcomed here. And yet another forum *where
the helpful experts won't post nor correct wrong posts* is certainly not
the best way to "popularize" Python.

 

[Adam Tauno Williams]

pyDev a écrit :
YetAnotherUselessWebForum

+1

Yuck; no better way to make new users hate your product than have a web
forum - where they post questions.... and never get answers... because
the people with the answers are over on the much-easier-to-use mailist
[what an awesome feature: the questions just show up in my INBOX!
Sweet.].

Oh yeah ? Chapter and verse, please
Do the world a favour : replace your whole forum with a static page
explaining how to join the "official" MLs and/or c.l.py.
Newcomers have always been welcomed here. And yet another forum *where
the helpful experts won't post nor correct wrong posts* is certainly not
the best way to "popularize" Python.

+1

 

[Terry Reedy]

forum for Python enthusiasts over at PythonForum.org (http://
pythonforum.org). Web-based forums is a preferred method by Python

This is the second time today I have read a post with a useless link
wrapped over two lines. Email lists and newsgroups (this is both) are
text, not html based. Put a link on one line by itself, with no
punctuation. The above, if posted at all, should have been

forum for Python enthusiasts over at PythonForum.org.
http://pythonforum.org
Web-based forums is a preferred method by Python

 

[News123]

Hello,

I would like to let the community know that there is a new web-based
forum for Python enthusiasts over at PythonForum.org (http://
pythonforum.org). Web-based forums is a preferred method by Python
newcomers to get help in exploring the world of Python and programming
overall. The main goal of PythonForum.org is to popularize Python by
welcoming all newcomers. Recently the forum got "attacked" with
questions by users just starting out with Python. I hope here will be
someone ready to welcome and help newcomers to enter the beautiful
world of Python.

I fully agree with the feedback, that creating a new forum is not such
an excellent idea. currently the critical mass seems to be here and I
appreciate this a lot.

However, whether we like it or not:
Fewer and fewer newcomers are willing, knowledgable, aware of nntp

If you think, that newbies are unlikely to use nntp, then create a
forum, web front end or whatever, which looks very nice and cool, which
will automatically relay messages (forward and backward) to this group.


In my opinion new forums should integrate nntp and not try to replace it.

An nntp gateway on just another server is also not as nice as just
communicating with the existing feeds.



N

 

[Adam Tauno Williams]

I fully agree with the feedback, that creating a new forum is not such
an excellent idea. currently the critical mass seems to be here and I
appreciate this a lot.
However, whether we like it or not:
Fewer and fewer newcomers are willing, knowledgable, aware of nntp

So? NNTP is the living dead. Time to let it go.

Most people use this list via e-mail, which everyone has access to and
knows how to use.

The best solution I've seen is what is used by the Mono project; which
provides both a "web forum" and a mail list interface.

<http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list>
<http://go-mono.com/forums/>

It works very well; and everyone [except the 3 or 4 NNTP hold outs] are
happy.

 

[Pierre Quentel]

If so, isn't that an indication that better education about the benefits
is required? Perhaps in combination with improving the tool support for
the NNTP protocol?



For this purpose, Papercut may be useful:

    Open source news server written in Python. Its main objective is to
    integrate existing web based message board software, like Phorum
    which is supported, with a Usenet front-end.

    <URL:http://pessoal.org/papercut/>

--
 \     “To stay young requires unceasing cultivation of the ability to |
  `\                   unlearn old falsehoods.” —Robert Anson Heinlein |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney

Hi all,

I agree that it's not efficient to split the community by creating
another forum. But we can't ignore the fact that c.l.p's activity has
been decreasing in the last years :

2000 42971
2001 55265
2002 56774
2003 64521
2004 55929
2005 58864
2006 59664
2007 49105
2008 48722
2009 44111

which certainly doesn't match the popularity of the language itself

So the OP's initiative should be an incentive to think on the format
of the interaction between all the range of Python users, from newbees
to gurus. We are in the 2.0 era, with social networks all over the
place using a pleasant interface, while c.l.p has a rather austere
look and feel, with text only, no way to present code snippets in a
different font / background than discussions, and even an unintuitive
way of entering links...

I'm not saying that pythonforum.org is the best solution but it
certainly looks more attractive than c.l.p. to the new generation of
Python users

- Pierre

 

[Martin P. Hellwig]

On 06/03/10 11:16, Pierre Quentel wrote:

I'm not saying that pythonforum.org is the best solution but it
certainly looks more attractive than c.l.p. to the new generation of
Python users

- Pierre

On the other hand it might not be so bad that you don't get questions
from users here who are unable to use a nntp reader or news to mail service.

Other 'forums' that specifically target users unaware of their opposable
thumbs certainly have a right of existence, though you wouldn't find me
there.

 

[Adam Tauno Williams]

I agree that it's not efficient to split the community by creating
another forum. But we can't ignore the fact that c.l.p's activity has
been decreasing in the last years :
2000 42971
2001 55265
2002 56774
2003 64521
2004 55929
2005 58864
2006 59664
2007 49105
2008 48722
2009 44111
which certainly doesn't match the popularity of the language itself

I'm not sure that means what you imply it does. I'm involved in several
projects and technical groups. List traffic is down across-the-board.
I remember [physical] UG [of various flavors] meetings of 30+ people,
now you average ~10. I see two factors: [a] much better documentation,
more traditional training, and simply that many of the hard nuts have
been cracked. It is much easier to develop [regardless of language] or
sys-admin than it was ~5 years ago. The "cool" has moved onto
something else. Don't dismiss this factor, it was certainly visible in
the UG space. "The Internet" and "IT" were the *it* thing, Open Source
and the web were a intriguing and mysterious novelties. Now they are
mainstream, ho hum. Coolness seekers have moved on to graze in other
fields [SEM and SM mostly].

In reference to [a] there are several very good Python texts available
and the online documentation is fair to decent.

So the OP's initiative should be an incentive to think on the format
of the interaction between all the range of Python users, from newbees
to gurus. We are in the 2.0 era, with social networks all over the
place using a pleasant interface,

I suppose that is a matter of taste; I hear no shortage of complaints
that Facebook et al are complicated and hard to use.

 

[Paul Rudin]

Most people use this list via e-mail...

Do you know this to be the case, or is that a guess?

 

[Michele Simionato]

On the other hand it might not be so bad that you don't get questions
from users here who are unable to use a nntp reader or news to mail service.

I am unable to use a nntp reader or news to mail service. I use the
Google Groups interface and I am happy with it.

 

[Paul Rudin]

I am unable to use a nntp reader or news to mail service. I use the
Google Groups interface and I am happy with it.

Arguably google groups *is* an nntp reader, although you don't get a
choice about which news server it talks to.

 

[Martin P. Hellwig]

I am unable to use a nntp reader or news to mail service. I use the
Google Groups interface and I am happy with it.

Good for you, just a shame that quite a bit of the regulars here ignore
anything that comes from google groups, not me though, I just mentally
ignore posts.

 

[Adam Tauno Williams]

Do you know this to be the case, or is that a guess?

Scan through a bunch of threads with show-headers. Watch the User-Agent
value (set by the senders client). The results become obvious pretty
quickly.

And it is generally interesting to see the User-Agent mix of a given
group of users.

 

[Tim Chase]

Scan through a bunch of threads with show-headers. Watch the User-Agent
value (set by the senders client). The results become obvious pretty
quickly.

It can be a bit misleading though -- some UAs allow you to read
both mail & nntp with the same interface (e.g., my Thunderbird
UA). I read via gmane's nntp, but it's a "mail" program. I'd
likely return to reading via email if TB allowed me to kill
threads & sub-threads in email like it does in newsgroups.

-tkc

 

[Andreas Waldenburger]

So the OP's initiative should be an incentive to think on the format
of the interaction between all the range of Python users, from newbees
to gurus. We are in the 2.0 era, with social networks all over the
place using a pleasant interface, while c.l.p has a rather austere
look and feel, with text only, no way to present code snippets in a
different font / background than discussions, and even an unintuitive
way of entering links...

I don't really have a well founded opinion on this yet, so I'm just
throwing it out there: From the moment I first heard about it, I've
always felt that Wave (that Google thing nobody cares about anymore)
was a perfect "replacement" for the lot of newsgroups, forums and
mailing lists.

But consolidation is the *only* way to go, really. The parallelism
between c.l.p. and python-list is great already. Now throw some sort of
Forum in the mix, and a Wave server, and you're set. Should be easy
enough with Python. "import pycommunity" anyone?

/W

 

[Paul Rudin]

Scan through a bunch of threads with show-headers. Watch the User-Agent
value (set by the senders client). The results become obvious pretty
quickly.

And it is generally interesting to see the User-Agent mix of a given
group of users.

So... by that criteria do you count me as email reader or nntp reader?

Gnus fills in the user-agent field just the same in either case.

 

[Adam Tauno Williams]

So... by that criteria do you count me as email reader or nntp reader?
NNTP

Gnus fills in the user-agent field just the same in either case.

Sure. But Thunderbird, Horde, Squirrel, Google/GMail, Evolution, and
Outlook/OWA are *not* NNTP agents.