python-hosting.com projects: dead?

[jpellerin+nose]

It looks to me like python hosting, aka webfaction, have shut down
access to all projects hosted under their free hosting for open source
python projects program. Including mine (nose). With no notice -- at
least none that I received.

Surprised doesn't quite cover it. Perhaps someone from python hosting
can explain why this was done, why no notice was given (if it wasn't),
and how those of us trying to restart our projects elsewhere can get
access to our subversion repositories and trac data.

JP

 

[Carl Banks]

It looks to me like python hosting, aka webfaction, have shut down
access to all projects hosted under their free hosting for open source
python projects program. Including mine (nose). With no notice -- at
least none that I received.

Surprised doesn't quite cover it. Perhaps someone from python hosting
can explain why this was done, why no notice was given (if it wasn't),
and how those of us trying to restart our projects elsewhere can get
access to our subversion repositories and trac data.

Maybe you're overreacting? Try checking the SVN tomorrow. Even Python
programs can have downtime.


Carl Banks

 

[jpellerin+nose]

Maybe you're overreacting? Try checking the SVN tomorrow. Even Python
programs can have downtime.

I certainly hope so, but this is what I'm reacting to (from
http://www.webfaction.com/freetrac):

"We're sorry, we're not longer accepting applications for free trac/svn
accounts. People have left their Trac sites unattended and as a result
our server is being flooded with spam. We need to do some serious
cleanup and when that's done we'll accept new applications again (that
might take weeks, if not months though). "

Unless my reading comprehension skills have completely abandoned me,
they aren't saying that they are experiencing downtime. They are saying
that they have shut down the service, for weeks or months -- with no
notice (again, at least not any that I got). I can understand shutting
down projects that are dead and just accumulating spam. I can
understand shutting the whole thing down, with a decent notice so that
projects don't die with the service. This, I just don't get. I hope I'm
overreacting. I hope I can slurp up all of my tickets tomorrow and
import them into their new home at google. But I'm not counting on it.

JP

 

[greg]

I certainly hope so, but this is what I'm reacting to (from
http://www.webfaction.com/freetrac):

"We're sorry, we're not longer accepting applications for free trac/svn
accounts. People have left their Trac sites unattended and as a result
our server is being flooded with spam. We need to do some serious
cleanup and when that's done we'll accept new applications again (that
might take weeks, if not months though). "

Um, that sounds to me like they're not accepting *new*
projects, not that they're shutting down existing ones.
Unless *my* reading comprehension skills have completely
abandoned me.

 

[Robert Kern]

Um, that sounds to me like they're not accepting *new*
projects, not that they're shutting down existing ones.
Unless *my* reading comprehension skills have completely
abandoned me.

Well, nose.python-hosting.com (Jason Pellerin's project) is certainly
inaccessible to me as well as most of the other free Tracs that I could scrounge
up through Google. Jason's not just being paranoid. While it may be temporary
and he will get hosting back in a few months(!), it's still down, and apparently
without warning (I'm not a party to any of this, so I'm simply going with what
Jason wrote).

--
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
an underlying truth."
-- Umberto Eco

 

[Fredrik Lundh]

It looks to me like python hosting, aka webfaction, have shut down
access to all projects hosted under their free hosting for open source
python projects program. Including mine (nose). With no notice -- at
least none that I received.

Surprised doesn't quite cover it. Perhaps someone from python hosting
can explain why this was done, why no notice was given (if it wasn't),
and how those of us trying to restart our projects elsewhere can get
access to our subversion repositories and trac data.

have you tried mailing webfaction instead of ranting on the usenet?

my account was temporarily disabled as well, during an attempt to clean
out seemingly abandoned trac instances, but was back online in less than
fifteen minutes after I'd mailed them.

you'll find the contact info in the mail you got when you signed up.

</F>

 

[Remi]

I certainly hope so, but this is what I'm reacting to (from

Um, that sounds to me like they're not accepting *new*
projects, not that they're shutting down existing ones.
Unless *my* reading comprehension skills have completely
abandoned me.

Your reading comprehension skills are fine

We're not accepting *new* projects anymore (for now), but we certainly
continue to support existing ones. We would never take down the sites
without at least a one month warning ... not that we have any plan to
do so anyway...

We had to do some serious cleanup and we disabled a lot of Trac sites
that looked abandoned (people left their Trac sites open to spammers
and our server was crawling under the load caused by these spammers).

If your site got disabled by mistake just e-mail us and we'll re-enable
it within minutes ...

Remi.

 

[jpellerin+nose]

have you tried mailing webfaction instead of ranting on the usenet?

I did. I didn't get a reply within minutes (indeed not until this
morning), so I posted a public message to try to find out if anyone
knew what was going on -- and also to warn other people whose projects
might have suddenly disappeared.

As of this morning my project is back online, so my thanks to python
hosting/webfaction for that. I'm very grateful to them for the great
free service they have provided. I'm sorry that they are getting killed
with spam, but I'm also sorry that they chose to handle the problem in
the way that they did. I had no way of knowing when I'd have access to
my svn repository and tickets again. I'm sure you can understand why I
was dismayed by this and why, unfortunately, I'll never be comfortable
trusting my data to them again.

JP

 

[Fredrik Lundh]

my svn repository and tickets again. I'm sure you can understand why I
was dismayed by this and why, unfortunately, I'll never be comfortable
trusting my data to them again.

not really, but maybe I've just worked with computers and human beings
long enough not to treat every little hiccup as if it were the end of
the world as we know it.

</F>

 

[jpellerin+nose]

not really, but maybe I've just worked with computers and human beings
long enough not to treat every little hiccup as if it were the end of
the world as we know it.

You're misreading me very badly, or I'm expressing myself very poorly.
Either way, you've inferred some kind of spittle-flecked freakout where
I did not mean to imply one.

JP

 

[Richard Jones]

We had to do some serious cleanup and we disabled a lot of Trac sites
that looked abandoned (people left their Trac sites open to spammers
and our server was crawling under the load caused by these spammers).

Actually, to clarify the DEFAULT configuration for Trac is to leave it open
to spam.

I don't even use the Trac instance for my project hosted on that server.


Richard

 

[greg]

We had to do some serious cleanup and we disabled a lot of Trac sites
that looked abandoned (people left their Trac sites open to spammers
and our server was crawling under the load caused by these spammers).

Perhaps it would be a good idea to send email to the owners
of these accounts letting them know what you've done and how
to get it re-enabled. Just shutting it down without any word
could be seen as a bit rude.

 

[greg]

Actually, to clarify the DEFAULT configuration for Trac is to leave it open
to spam.

That sounds like a really bad choice of default.

A bit like the way Windows comes with all the
"let anyone in the world send me a virus"
options turned on...

 

[dwhall]

My project was temporarily disabled as well even though I had taken
measures to block spam and had committed to svn and edited the trac
wiki one day before. I was a bit concerned that maybe webfaction had
lost my trac and svn during their house cleaning. But I emailed Remi
and he had it going again promptly. They provide a great service for
free and they give back to the Python community. They deserve our
thanks and our patronage.

With regard to how they handled it, I think they chose an effective
method. Why should they support projects (for free) that aren't
active? So just disable the project to see if anyone cares enough to
find out why it's gone. Ever so slightly draconian, but good for
keeping a clean house. I'm glad they have done this cleaning work, the
server seems much more responsive now; no more errors from trac.

!!Dean

 

[John J. Lee]

As of this morning my project is back online, so my thanks to python
hosting/webfaction for that. I'm very grateful to them for the great
free service they have provided. I'm sorry that they are getting killed
with spam, but I'm also sorry that they chose to handle the problem in
the way that they did. I had no way of knowing when I'd have access to
my svn repository and tickets again. I'm sure you can understand why I
was dismayed by this and why, unfortunately, I'll never be comfortable
trusting my data to them again.

As a user of webfaction's commercial web hosting services, I'm glad
that they took the responsible action they did to stop spammers
affecting those services.

Frankly, as a user of a free service, I don't think you have the right
to demand an instant response -- though it seems they provided just
that to some such users. What you wrote above is a fairly drastic
over-reaction. If you need more reliable service, then pay for
hosting. Worse, your words would not be much different if they had
been calculated to punish the very people trying to help you (I don't
say for a moment that was your intent of course!).

Like all of us who post messages on the internet <wink>, I'm sure
you'll now go and think about it for a day before hitting 'reply'
again.


John

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?=]

That sounds like a really bad choice of default.

A bit like the way Windows comes with all the
"let anyone in the world send me a virus"
options turned on...

Not really, Trac's default to be open is great for intranet
installations. It is Webfactions own fault that they haven't been able
to shield themself from spam by changing Trac's default to something
more restrictive.

 

[Terry Reedy]

. It is Webfactions own fault that they haven't been able
to shield themself from spam by changing Trac's default to something
more restrictive.

To me, this is a bit too much 'blame the victim'. The fault lies with
spammers
who are willing to exploit to destruction something they did not build.
The rest of us are still learning how to live with the reality of their
existence.

tjr

 

[skip]

. It is Webfactions own fault that they haven't been able to shield
Terry> To me, this is a bit too much 'blame the victim'. The fault lies
Terry> with spammers who are willing to exploit to destruction something
Terry> they did not build. The rest of us are still learning how to
Terry> live with the reality of their existence.

I'm sure there's plenty of blame to go around. Maybe the Trac authors
should take their share for setting a default that leaves it open to
spammers.

Skip

 

[Terry Reedy]

| Terry> To me, this is a bit too much 'blame the victim'. The fault
lies
| Terry> with spammers who are willing to exploit to destruction
something
| Terry> they did not build. The rest of us are still learning how to
| Terry> live with the reality of their existence.
|
| I'm sure there's plenty of blame to go around.

To repeat, I place all blame, in any perjoritive sense, on the amoral
insectoids who violate the basic behavioral norms of restraint that make
civil life possible. Blurring the difference between perpetrators and
victims only helps perpetrators.

To me, it is like this. We go to a restaurant and sit down together to eat
and discuss Python. Some jerk walks in, sits down at our table, and starts
shoving handbills in our faces while shouting sales pitches at us. Who is
to blame for the disruption?

| Maybe the Trac authors should take their share for setting a default
| that leaves it open to spammers.

Just about every restaurant, store, church, school, park, and so on I have
been to has been open to spammers along with legitimate attendees.

The Trac authors are among the spammers' victims. I agree that it might be
wise for them to notice the cretinoids and adjust accordingly. But they
are not to blame for the need to do so.

Terry Jan Reedy