req. recommendation of Tools around vhdl + simulation + debugging/checking

[khiltrop]

Hello,


there are expensive tools on the market, and I am asking what are the main
benefits compared to what I am using now:
the Xilinx IDE V6.2 + Modelsim XE II / Starter 5.7g

and *what* actually *are* the recommended tools I could use, which are in
any way 'better' and 'worth the price'

concerning:

* speed - my project could become ready earlier, caused by advantages of
the tool
* quality - better use of silicium, better warnings concerning pitfalls
and bad programming
* comfort - easier debugging
* anything I may not imagine now

Now, I am doing a medium complex FPGA project (XC2S100). Future projects
may become more complex and contain processor core etc.

Any comments or hints?


Klaus

 

[Mike Treseler]

there are expensive tools on the market, and I am asking what are the main
benefits compared to what I am using now:
the Xilinx IDE V6.2 + Modelsim XE II / Starter 5.7g

If you are getting your projects done on time without
becoming too annoyed, don't worry about the tools.
If your Fiat is running fine, don't buy a BMW.

and *what* actually *are* the recommended tools I could use, which are in
any way 'better' and 'worth the price'

Free/inexpensive vendor tools use a Windows platform
and have a bias away from vhdl simulation and synthesis
toward wiring up device specific cores.
Many designers are quite happy with this setup.
I like a unix platform and having the full use of the vhdl language
to describe and test the logic I need.

* speed - my project could become ready earlier, caused by advantages of
the tool

For some, this means having cores available to wire up.
To others this means a clean edit/simulation process
to write and verify code.

* quality - better use of silicium, better warnings concerning pitfalls
and bad programming

Some test their code with a synthesis run.
Others use simulation.

Any comments or hints?

If you inclined to buy one industrial strength tool,
start with a fully licensed simulator.

-- Mike Treseler

 

[khiltrop]

Thank you Mike for your answer.

I expected more answers in general, and some names of products a
professional developer must have,
or something useful I do not know about.

Seems that the free tools are quite good compared to expensive ones,
seems that the advantage of prof. tools one pays for is not *that* big.

Certainly experience is most important in this business.
Also, using a good simulator and interpreting the results (and setup the
right testbench) can be quite difficult for a newbie.


Klaus

 

[Mike Treseler]

Thank you Mike for your answer.

You are welcome.

I expected more answers in general,

consider a search
here's one
http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?q=vhdl+tools+tree+neeraj

and some names of products a
professional developer must have,

I'm not sure that there are any.

or something useful I do not know about.

Life has its disappointments.

Seems that the free tools are quite good compared to expensive ones,
seems that the advantage of prof. tools one pays for is not *that* big.

If you really need to know, get a trial
license and try it yourself.


-- Mike Treseler

 

[Charles Bailey]

Seems that the free tools are quite good compared to expensive ones,
seems that the advantage of prof. tools one pays for is not *that*

big.
As far as VHDL simulators go, I've never found a free simulator that was
of practical use for any real design of even modest proportions. So, in
that sense, the advantage of professional tools that you have to pay for
is HUGE. (If anyone knows of a free simulator that is useful for
running anything other than examples from a textbook, I'll like to see
it.)

Charles Bailey

 

[Ajeetha]

Have you tried Simli from http://www.symphonyeda.com? I've simulated
LEON core in it without any issues and I find it excellent!
Ajeetha
http://www.noveldv.com

 

[Jezwold]

It terms of simulators Ive been using the unlicenced version of
modelsim 5.3d for all of my projects and apart from the fact that
anything more than a few hundred executable lines of code is made
slower to simulate than it would be for a fully licenced version it
does everything I need. I have even managed to simulate a 8052 core
with it without undue problems,and having seen that a licence for the
latest version of modelsim starts at $6000 I think i'll stick to what
ive got.

 

[Charles Bailey]

Have you tried Simli from http://www.symphonyeda.com? I've simulated
LEON core in it without any issues and I find it excellent!
Ajeetha
http://www.noveldv.com

No, I have tried Simili. I'll give it a try in the near future.

Charles Bailey

 

[Charles Bailey]

It terms of simulators Ive been using the unlicenced version of
modelsim 5.3d for all of my projects and apart from the fact that
anything more than a few hundred executable lines of code is made
slower to simulate than it would be for a fully licenced version it
does everything I need. I have even managed to simulate a 8052 core
with it without undue problems,and having seen that a licence for the
latest version of modelsim starts at $6000 I think i'll stick to what
ive got.

I have ModelSim XE II 5.7g and it works well for simple little test
cases.
Anything of any practical size, in my experience, easily exceeds the
line limit and it starts inserting l-o-n-g pauses to deliberately
cripple the performance. I tried to debug a moderately complex design
in spite of these long pauses, but after a while, gave up in
frustration.

Charles Bailey