Ruby-Talk Subject Matters

[T. Onoma]

Out of curiosity, how do others feel about "suggestive" threads? Do you feel
ruby-talk is the appropriate place for these? And what of more in depth
variations of the same, such as the Underpinnings of Method Wrapping thread,
that Peter and I have going, and other threads of this nature?

T.

 

[Jamis Buck]

Out of curiosity, how do others feel about "suggestive" threads? Do you feel
ruby-talk is the appropriate place for these? And what of more in depth
variations of the same, such as the Underpinnings of Method Wrapping thread,
that Peter and I have going, and other threads of this nature?

T.

"Suggestive", meaning "suggesting new features?" I'm still pretty new
to ruby-talk, but it seems like a good enough place to me. I guess the
question I would ask in response is: what do you perceive the purpose of
ruby-talk to be? If it isn't suggesting new features and ideas, and
discussing ideas, I'm not sure why else I'd subscribe.

 

[Hal Fulton]

Out of curiosity, how do others feel about "suggestive" threads? Do you feel
ruby-talk is the appropriate place for these? And what of more in depth
variations of the same, such as the Underpinnings of Method Wrapping thread,
that Peter and I have going, and other threads of this nature?

Just my opinion.

Suggestions are not out of place in -talk, but I like for them
to be kept to a minimum.

The desire to make numerous, frequent, sweeping changes to the
language is the mark of the nuby.

The list is at its best when people are making contributions
instead of spouting off, speculating, or whining (all of which
I've done at times).

Useful contributions include:
- answering a nuby's question
- contributing useful code
- making an RAA or rubyforge entry
- calling attention to a new article or book
- and so on

These make up the "signal" of -talk.

This sort of thing makes up the "noise":
- endless discussion of dead RCRs
- demands for a ++ operator
- endless comparisons to other languages
- whining because Ruby is different from Java/Perl/Python
- requests for language features that would make sense
only to a Martian on LSD
- gratuitous references to POLS and duck typing
- personal attacks
- saying things in 5,000 words when 50 would do
- and so on

And yes, I'm guilty of noise, too.

Sometimes the signal-to-noise ratio is fairly high. Sometimes
it is fairly low.

It's better when it's high.

Again, just my opinion.


Hal

 

[Joel VanderWerf]

This sort of thing makes up the "noise":
- endless discussion of dead RCRs
- demands for a ++ operator
- endless comparisons to other languages
- whining because Ruby is different from Java/Perl/Python
- requests for language features that would make sense
only to a Martian on LSD
- gratuitous references to POLS and duck typing
- personal attacks
- saying things in 5,000 words when 50 would do
- and so on

And yes, I'm guilty of noise, too.

Sometimes the signal-to-noise ratio is fairly high. Sometimes
it is fairly low.

It's better when it's high.

Agreed: we shouldn't let the attacks get low or the martians get high

 

[Daniel Carrera]

This sort of thing makes up the "noise":

- endless discussion of dead RCRs

What's an RCR?

- demands for a ++ operator

I did that once. Sorry.

- endless comparisons to other languages

Positive comparisons okay? Ruby rulez!

- gratuitous references to POLS and duck typing

If I may ask... what do those things mean?

- saying things in 5,000 words when 50 would do

Succinctness is a virtue.


Cheers,

 

[Simon Strandgaard]

What's an RCR?


If I may ask... what do those things mean?

terminology used in our community
http://www.rubygarden.org/ruby?RubyAbbreviations

 

[Daniel Carrera]

If I may ask... what do those things mean?

terminology used in our community
http://www.rubygarden.org/ruby?RubyAbbreviations

He he.
Yes, that's a lot easier than picking them up from conversation. I don't
feel so bad because I did know most of them. But a few were new to me;
DRY, IANYM, POLS, RCR, YAGNI, and YWFWA being the most notable ones.

Cheers,

 

[Simon Strandgaard]

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 04:31:06 +0900, Hal Fulton wrote:
[snip]

These make up the "signal" of -talk.

This sort of thing makes up the "noise":

[snip]


How about announcements, are they considered signal? or noise?

Should they go to ruby-talk or
(e-mail address removed) ?

 

[T. Onoma]

What's an RCR?

Ruby Change Request.

I did that once. Sorry.

Don't be. Its a common thought, and its noticed lack in Ruby is obviously one
of the first things a Nuby will wonder about. And I certainly wouldn't expect
a Nuby to know too much about tracking down past suggestions either.

Positive comparisons okay? Ruby rulez!

Yes, yes it does.

If I may ask... what do those things mean?

POLS - Principle of Least Surprise. It is a general design principle by which
Matz does his best to apply to the design of Ruby. By extension, Rubyists try
to follow the same principle. Obviously we all have different opinions about
it.

Duck Typing - An much newer notion that a class/object (even a method in a
round about way) has a Type based on the the methods it responds to and not
by the name it is given. This analogy may help:

Class : Duck Type :: kind_of? : repond_to?

Cheers in Return,
T.

 

[Gavin Sinclair]

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 04:31:06 +0900, Hal Fulton wrote:
[snip]

These make up the "signal" of -talk.

This sort of thing makes up the "noise": [snip]

How about announcements, are they considered signal? or noise?

Should they go to ruby-talk or
(e-mail address removed) ?

Hal mentioned RAA and RubyForge announcements. I think they're an
important part of the signal. So much so, they're typically labelled
with [ANN] so one doesn't miss them amongst the noise. I think
announcements of significant updates is welcome as well.

Having a dedicated announcement list is fine in theory, but there's
just not a real need for it IMO. It doesn't allow for discussions
based on announcements. If someone doesn't like reading the rest of
ruby-talk, they can filter. If enough people don't like it, they can
create a program that filters and publishes announcements through a
separate list. That sort of thing should be automatic and should not
depend on people bothering to post announcements to multiple places.

Gavin

 

[gabriele renzi]

il Fri, 12 Dec 2003 04:52:42 +0900, Daniel Carrera

Positive comparisons okay? Ruby rulez!

ehi, IMO the keyword is 'endles'.
It's a Good Thing (TM) to have some comparison, sometimes. It's just
ugly when a thread goes on for thousand of messages

 

[Martin DeMello]

"Suggestive", meaning "suggesting new features?" I'm still pretty new

Unless he meant "Christina Aguilera naked 1782"

IMO feature suggestions are interesting in moderation, but they tend to
take over the group every so often. It's more fun to talk about
ruby-as-it-is.

martin

 

[Mauricio Fernández]

POLS - Principle of Least Surprise. It is a general design principle by which
Matz does his best to apply to the design of Ruby. By extension, Rubyists try
to follow the same principle. Obviously we all have different opinions about
it.

Don't spread the confusion anymore!

Please keep in mind that POLS means only "least surprise" to matz.
http://www.rubyist.net/~matz/slides/oscon2003/mgp00043.jpg

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[T. Onoma]

Don't spread the confusion anymore!

Please keep in mind that POLS means only "least surprise" to matz.
http://www.rubyist.net/~matz/slides/oscon2003/mgp00043.jpg

That's not true. That's only applies to Ruby itself. And not, for instance,
all the programs in the RAA.

As the slide says: "the one in designer's eye". It doesn't say "matz' eye".