[semi OT]: Smartphones and Python?

[Martin Schöön]

First of all: I don't have any first hand experience of smartphones
but now that my trusted old GSM phone is getting old I decided I am
in for an up-grade. It struck me it might be nice to get something
for which I could write Python programs.

A very quick internet search indicated that this should be no big
deal if I go for an Android-based phone. What about the alterna-
tives?

It struck me this must be the best place to ask.

What else? I don't know if it matters but my home PC OS is Linux.
And I am not much of a Python programmer but I enjoy learning it
and I have reached a level that has turned out to be useful at work.

/Martin

 

[MRAB]

First of all: I don't have any first hand experience of smartphones
but now that my trusted old GSM phone is getting old I decided I am
in for an up-grade. It struck me it might be nice to get something
for which I could write Python programs.

A very quick internet search indicated that this should be no big
deal if I go for an Android-based phone. What about the alterna-
tives?

It struck me this must be the best place to ask.

What else? I don't know if it matters but my home PC OS is Linux.
And I am not much of a Python programmer but I enjoy learning it
and I have reached a level that has turned out to be useful at work.

Python has been ported to iOS, if you're thinking of going the Apple
route:

http://ipython.hozbox.com

 

[Paul Rubin]

A very quick internet search indicated that this should be no big
deal if I go for an Android-based phone. What about the alternatives?

It works pretty well with Maemo, though phones with that are not so easy
to find. My ex-officemate wrote some SL4A (Android) apps in Python and
said it was pretty easy to use, though some features were missing. I
know that one missing feature was tkinter.

 

[geremy condra]

First of all: I don't have any first hand experience of smartphones
but now that my trusted old GSM phone is getting old I decided I am
in for an up-grade. It struck me it might be nice to get something
for which I could write Python programs.

A very quick internet search indicated that this should be no big
deal if I go for an Android-based phone. What about the alterna-
tives?

It struck me this must be the best place to ask.

What else? I don't know if it matters but my home PC OS is Linux.
And I am not much of a Python programmer but I enjoy learning it
and I have reached a level that has turned out to be useful at work.

Please note that while SL4A is a pretty good mobile python environment
it doesn't support all of the Android API, which means it generally
isn't an easy way to develop fully-fledged Android apps.

Geremy Condra

 

[88888 Dihedral]

在 2012å¹´2月16日星期四UTC+8上åˆ10æ—¶19分15秒，geremy condra写é“：

Please note that while SL4A is a pretty good mobile python environment
it doesn't support all of the Android API, which means it generally
isn't an easy way to develop fully-fledged Android apps.

Geremy Condra

In the 4 G space of SW AP in Adndroid phones,
check Jython. But I think a better data compression
modules is more helpful.

Patterns about arithmetic compressions and LZW are expired, but not those in mp4 for the commercial use.

Thus, the time to install a complete OS on a tablet
or mobile phone with LTE on the way.

We need smaller HD or flashes in these small devices.

 

[88888 Dihedral]

在 2012å¹´2月16日星期四UTC+8上åˆ10æ—¶19分15秒，geremy condra写é“：

Please note that while SL4A is a pretty good mobile python environment
it doesn't support all of the Android API, which means it generally
isn't an easy way to develop fully-fledged Android apps.

Geremy Condra

In the 4 G space of SW AP in Adndroid phones,
check Jython. But I think a better data compression
modules is more helpful.

Patterns about arithmetic compressions and LZW are expired, but not those in mp4 for the commercial use.

Thus, the time to install a complete OS on a tablet
or mobile phone with LTE on the way.

We need smaller HD or flashes in these small devices.

 

[Michael Torrie]

In the 4 G space of SW AP in Adndroid phones,
check Jython. But I think a better data compression
modules is more helpful.

Jython, though a very cool and useful implementation, relies on the Java
virtual machine to run. It does not yet run on Dalvik, nor is it clear
that it ever will. The project to port jython to Dalvik, but it died
and the authors said, just use Android scripting. lame.

 

[88888 Dihedral]

The law suites of JAVA Vitrtual Machine from Oracle
are famous now. But in 201X the JVM patents will be
expired, thus it is not very urgent to chunk out a new jython now. Anyway just write codes that can be maintained and ported to other languages and platforms
easily.

Then I personally prefer python.

 

[88888 Dihedral]

The law suites of JAVA Vitrtual Machine from Oracle
are famous now. But in 201X the JVM patents will be
expired, thus it is not very urgent to chunk out a new jython now. Anyway just write codes that can be maintained and ported to other languages and platforms
easily.

Then I personally prefer python.

 

[Michael Torrie]

The law suites of JAVA Vitrtual Machine from Oracle
are famous now. But in 201X the JVM patents will be
expired, thus it is not very urgent to chunk out a new jython now. Anyway just write codes that can be maintained and ported to other languages and platforms
easily.

Umm what does this have to do with anything?

You claimed Jython is or will be available on Android. It's not and
Jython isn't being ported to Dalvik and it has nothing to do with
patents. Android might use java a language, but the virtual machines
are very different. And no expired patents are going to change that
fact. Android simply isn't going to run the JVM anytime soon.

 

[Grant Edwards]

You claimed Jython is or will be available on Android. It's not and
Jython isn't being ported to Dalvik and it has nothing to do with
patents. Android might use java a language, but the virtual machines
are very different. And no expired patents are going to change that
fact. Android simply isn't going to run the JVM anytime soon.

I got curious about Dalvik, and was looking at the Wikipedia page,
where it says that programs for Android are compiled into bytecode in
JVM compatible .class files. Those files are then converted into .dex
files to run on Davlik.

I don't know much at all about Jython, but if it generates JVM byte
code, mightn't the same conversion to .dex be applicable?

 

[Grant Edwards]

I got curious about Dalvik, and was looking at the Wikipedia page,
where it says that programs for Android are compiled into bytecode in
JVM compatible .class files. Those files are then converted into
.dex files to run on Davlik.

I don't know much at all about Jython, but if it generates JVM byte
code, mightn't the same conversion to .dex be applicable?

Apparently there was a project to do just that:

http://code.google.com/p/jythonroid/

But it's been abandonded in favor of SL4A, which offers a
PythonForAndroid_r4.apk download. There's a book about Python on
Android via SL4A called _Pro_Android_Python_with_SL4A_.

http://www.apress.com/9781430235699

Interesting...

 

[Michael Torrie]

I got curious about Dalvik, and was looking at the Wikipedia page,
where it says that programs for Android are compiled into bytecode in
JVM compatible .class files. Those files are then converted into .dex
files to run on Davlik.

I don't know much at all about Jython, but if it generates JVM byte
code, mightn't the same conversion to .dex be applicable?

I think it has to do with the fact that Jython does dynamic class
generation and loading. Similarly I don't think JBoss or Tomcat could
be ported easily to Dalvik without making lots of changes to the class
loading stuff. But I know nothing about Java, so I could be way wrong here.

 

[88888 Dihedral]

在 2012å¹´2月16日星期四UTC+8下åˆ11æ—¶22分44秒，Michael Torrie写é“：

Umm what does this have to do with anything?

You claimed Jython is or will be available on Android. It's not and
Jython isn't being ported to Dalvik and it has nothing to do with
patents. Android might use java a language, but the virtual machines
are very different. And no expired patents are going to change that
fact. Android simply isn't going to run the JVM anytime soon.

Android is a customized linux OS used in mobile phones.
I don't think any linux systm has to be locked by JAVA or any JVM to run applications.

The memory systems in mobile phones are different from
PCs. This is the current situation in the consumer
electronics sector.

 

[88888 Dihedral]

在 2012å¹´2月16日星期四UTC+8下åˆ11æ—¶22分44秒，Michael Torrie写é“：

Umm what does this have to do with anything?

You claimed Jython is or will be available on Android. It's not and
Jython isn't being ported to Dalvik and it has nothing to do with
patents. Android might use java a language, but the virtual machines
are very different. And no expired patents are going to change that
fact. Android simply isn't going to run the JVM anytime soon.

Android is a customized linux OS used in mobile phones.
I don't think any linux systm has to be locked by JAVA or any JVM to run applications.

The memory systems in mobile phones are different from
PCs. This is the current situation in the consumer
electronics sector.

 

[Michael Torrie]

Android is a customized linux OS used in mobile phones. I don't think
any linux systm has to be locked by JAVA or any JVM to run
applications.

Getting waaayyyy off topic here, but...

I guess you aren't familiar with what Android is (which is ironic, given
that a lot of people on this list think you must be one!). Android is
not simply a customized linux distribution. It's a special application
environment (an OS in its own right) that is based on the Dalvik virtual
machine. Dalvik does depend on the Linux kernel to talk to the
hardware, but Linux very much is not a part of Android, at least from
the developers' and end users' points of view. Linux is just not a part
of the user experience at all. It is true that Dalvik can call into
native linux code, but native linux applications typically aren't a part
of the Android user experience.

Thus you can't just install any JVM on android. Thus cpython or jython
just isn't part of it. For one I don't know of any sun-compatible JVM
that has been ported to ARM. For two, there aren't any hooks into the
Android UI APIs even if you could get it running.

Android is even being ported to the QNX kernel by the Blackberry folks,
so they can have android compatibility on next-generation blackberries
that run their own native OS.

The memory systems in mobile phones are different from PCs. This is
the current situation in the consumer electronics sector.

I do not understand what you are saying, or at least why you are saying
this. But I don't understand most of your posts.

 

[88888 Dihedral]

在 2012å¹´2月18日星期六UTC+8上åˆ9æ—¶51分13秒，Michael Torrie写é“：

Getting waaayyyy off topic here, but...

I guess you aren't familiar with what Android is (which is ironic, given
that a lot of people on this list think you must be one!). Android is
not simply a customized linux distribution. It's a special application
environment (an OS in its own right) that is based on the Dalvik virtual
machine. Dalvik does depend on the Linux kernel to talk to the
hardware, but Linux very much is not a part of Android, at least from

Android is a Linux OS kernal plus a virtual machine which supports GUI services and a JIT compiler in law suites charged by Oracles now.

A different set of shell tool to write some AP is not
a new OS.

It can be called a new IDE which supports manny services not well maintained by the free linux
contributors in a loosely unorganized way.

the developers' and end users' points of view. Linux is just not a part
of the user experience at all. It is true that Dalvik can call into
native linux code, but native linux applications typically aren't a part
of the Android user experience.

Thus you can't just install any JVM on android. Thus cpython or jython
just isn't part of it. For one I don't know of any sun-compatible JVM
that has been ported to ARM. For two, there aren't any hooks into the
Android UI APIs even if you could get it running.

Android is even being ported to the QNX kernel by the Blackberry folks,
so they can have android compatibility on next-generation blackberries
that run their own native OS.



I do not understand what you are saying, or at least why you are saying
this. But I don't understand most of your posts.

You can use VMware like techniques to emulate another OS
to support AP of different formats. This is not new at
all.
i

 

[Andrew Berg]

在 2012å¹´2月18日星期六UTC+8上åˆ9æ—¶51分13秒，Michael Torrie写é“：

Android is a Linux OS kernal plus a virtual machine which supports GUI services and a JIT compiler in law suites charged by Oracles now.

A different set of shell tool to write some AP is not
a new OS.

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, GUI adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod
application incididunt ut labore et dolore magna Android. Ut linux ad
minim veniam, quis python exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip
ex hardware commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in Dalvik in
voluptate velit esse cillum Java eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur
sint kernel OS non proident, sunt in culpa qui shell deserunt mollit
Oracle id est laborum.


Sorry for the noise, but I'm hoping I can corrupt the bot's dictionary
to make it more obvious.

 

[Lie Ryan]

Getting waaayyyy off topic here, but...

I guess you aren't familiar with what Android is (which is ironic, given
that a lot of people on this list think you must be one!). Android is
not simply a customized linux distribution.

Strictly speaking, Android *is* a customized Linux distribution; what it
is not is Android is not a GNU/Linux distribution.

It's a special application
environment (an OS in its own right) that is based on the Dalvik virtual
machine. Dalvik does depend on the Linux kernel to talk to the
hardware, but Linux very much is not a part of Android, at least from
the developers' and end users' points of view. Linux is just not a part
of the user experience at all. It is true that Dalvik can call into
native linux code, but native linux applications typically aren't a part
of the Android user experience.

Android does have a full Linux experience; what it lacks is the GNU
experience. Unlike "normal" Linux distros, Android does not use GNU
userspace, instead it have its own userspace based on bionic, toolbox,
and dalvik. Linux is a core part of Android's user and developer's
experience.

 

[Matej Cepl]

Android simply isn't going to run the JVM anytime soon.

In reality yes, but just technically speaking there is the project
IcedRobot (http://www.icedrobot.org/), which is a fork of Android over
OpenJDK.

Best,

Matěj