Sitemap

  • Thread starter Luigi Donatello Asero
  • Start date
L

Luigi Donatello Asero

E

EightNineThree

Luigi Donatello Asero said:
I wonder how useful a sitemap is on a website, whether it should contain
the links to all the pages of the site, even if they are many, if I should
provide a link to the map on every page , whether a sitemap also helps
search engines
and whether it is easier to make such a one after creating a database.

Usability studies show that sitemaps are useful only when they are simple
and organized categorically.
I link to the site map from every page.


--
Karl Core

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not
cease to be insipid.
Friedrich Nietzsche

eightninethree AT eightninethree.com
 
E

EightNineThree

Luigi Donatello Asero said:
Should the sitemap contain links to all the pages of the site, even if they
are over 1000?

I don't think so.
How you approach it is up to you. A lot of really large sites only dig down
2-3 tiers into the site.
My day job site is 470 pages and there's only maybe 75 links on the site
map.
Just make sure the map reflects the structure of the site and contains links
to the things the users most likely come looking for.


--
Karl Core

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not
cease to be insipid.
Friedrich Nietzsche

eightninethree AT eightninethree.com
 
B

Big Bill

I wonder how useful a sitemap is on a website, whether it should contain
the links to all the pages of the site, even if they are many, if I should
provide a link to the map on every page , whether a sitemap also helps
search engines
and whether it is easier to make such a one after creating a database.
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)

Site maps are an often overlooked essential. You want a link from your
main page to your site map. Your site map should contain links
themselves containing keywords to every page on your site. This will
help the engines to spider it. If your site is less than 300 pages,
you can use a free utility called Xenu (do a search) to make it. Run
Xenu, make a report (you'll see what I mean) then cut and paste into a
new html document. Your sitemap shiould not be called sitemap, it
should be called after your best keyword phrase. If your site is more
than 300 pages, you'll need sitemap creator. There'll be a link to
that from my site just as soon as I can figure out their rather
confusing affiliate program.
But, yeah, sitemaps are really good.

BB
 
B

Big Bill

Should the sitemap contain links to all the pages of the site, even if they
are over 1000?

Yes but you'll need to break the sitemap up into several pages each
containing no more than 100 links.

BB
 
B

Big Bill

I don't think so.
How you approach it is up to you. A lot of really large sites only dig down
2-3 tiers into the site.
My day job site is 470 pages and there's only maybe 75 links on the site
map.
Just make sure the map reflects the structure of the site and contains links
to the things the users most likely come looking for.

Er, I so disagree with Karl here.

BB
 
L

Luigi Donatello Asero

Big Bill said:
Site maps are an often overlooked essential. You want a link from your
main page to your site map. Your site map should contain links
themselves containing keywords to every page on your site. This will
help the engines to spider it. If your site is less than 300 pages,
you can use a free utility called Xenu (do a search) to make it. Run
Xenu, make a report (you'll see what I mean) then cut and paste into a
new html document. Your sitemap shiould not be called sitemap, it
should be called after your best keyword phrase.

I have much more than 300 pages within my website but I think that it would
be very difficult to find just one keyword phrase because my
one-man business offers a lot of different things, for example e-commerce of
Swedish and Italian ceramics and intermediation for rent (even
intermediation for rent exchange) of holidays lodgings which are situated in
Sweden and in Italy, interpreting and so on.
Does a database help create a sitemap?


- -
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)



http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/valkommen.html
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/it/ceramicasvedeseuno.html
 
H

Hywel Jenkins

I have much more than 300 pages within my website but I think that it would
be very difficult to find just one keyword phrase because my
one-man business offers a lot of different things, for example e-commerce of
Swedish and Italian ceramics and intermediation for rent (even
intermediation for rent exchange) of holidays lodgings which are situated in
Sweden and in Italy, interpreting and so on.

Add a search engine to it.

Does a database help create a sitemap?

No. You seem to be obsessed with databases lately. Do you want to
investigate them so that you can extend your skills? If you do, just
have a go at them.
 
E

EightNineThree

Big Bill said:
Er, I so disagree with Karl here.

Ok, what do you disagree with?

--
Karl Core

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not
cease to be insipid.
Friedrich Nietzsche

eightninethree AT eightninethree.com
 
J

Joel Shepherd

Luigi said:
I wonder how useful a sitemap is on a website...

Some users prefer a well-organized site map to a site's "regular"
navigational scheme: at least this is feedback I've received.
whether it should contain the links to all the pages of the site,
even if they are many, if I should provide a link to the map on
every page

Unless the site is fairly small (< 50 pages), I'd not be inclined to
list every page in the map. Maps (of any sort) exist so people can
locate things of interest quickly. Part of the challenge in making a
map is to include enough detail so people can do that, without
including so much detail that they get lost or overwhelmed.

Think of a site map like an extended table of contents. For instance,
some technical books have a basic table of contents which is just a
listing of chapters, followed by a more detailed TOC which lists
subsections in each chapter. I think a site map should strive to be
like a detailed TOC. It doesn't have to list every page, but it should
get visitors close enough to any information on your site that they
can get the rest of the way themselves.

On a side-note, which might be similar to what you're trying to do: I
have a large number of images (in addition to hundreds of other pages)
on one of my sites, carefully cataloged and indexed. I don't list
every image, or even every section in the site map: I just have a link
to the "image library". Once they get there, there is kind of a "sub
map" there that they can use to explore further.

List 700-800 images in a site map doesn't make sense: listing
groupings of them might. Similarly for properties: listing every
property probably doesn't make sense, but listing regions of
properties might.
, whether a sitemap also helps search engines...

Probably, though I'm inclined to make things easier for humans, not
'puters.
and whether it is easier to make such a one after creating a
database.

My intuition is that, unless you are dealing with a very large number
of categories or sections, that the overhead of creating a logical
database schema will be far higher than just writing a page of links.
 
L

Luigi Donatello Asero

Joel Shepherd said:
Some users prefer a well-organized site map to a site's "regular"
navigational scheme: at least this is feedback I've received.


Unless the site is fairly small (< 50 pages), I'd not be inclined to
list every page in the map. Maps (of any sort) exist so people can
locate things of interest quickly. Part of the challenge in making a
map is to include enough detail so people can do that, without
including so much detail that they get lost or overwhelmed.

Think of a site map like an extended table of contents. For instance,
some technical books have a basic table of contents which is just a
listing of chapters, followed by a more detailed TOC which lists
subsections in each chapter. I think a site map should strive to be
like a detailed TOC. It doesn't have to list every page, but it should
get visitors close enough to any information on your site that they
can get the rest of the way themselves.

On a side-note, which might be similar to what you're trying to do: I
have a large number of images (in addition to hundreds of other pages)
on one of my sites, carefully cataloged and indexed. I don't list
every image, or even every section in the site map: I just have a link
to the "image library". Once they get there, there is kind of a "sub
map" there that they can use to explore further.

List 700-800 images in a site map doesn't make sense: listing
groupings of them might. Similarly for properties: listing every
property probably doesn't make sense, but listing regions of
properties might.


Probably, though I'm inclined to make things easier for humans, not
'puters.


My intuition is that, unless you are dealing with a very large number
of categories or sections, that the overhead of creating a logical
database schema will be far higher than just writing a page of links.


Yes, I am dealing with a large number of categories. The website already
consists of 4 languages but it might include pages in other languages in
future.
Besides it deals with a lot of activities.
To me it is important to make things easier both for humans and search
engines.

- -
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)



http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/valkommen.html
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/it/ceramicasvedeseuno.html
 
L

Luigi Donatello Asero

Hywel Jenkins said:
Get a better search engine.

Why do you think that it would be a good solution? Why do you think that a
search
engine which for example would let users look for more words simultaneously
would help more than a database or/and the site map and/or the navigation
menu?
I read a short introduction about databases at
http://www.htmlgoodies.com/
and it also says "In today's world you just can't escape the database. Right
now there are literally over a million databases at work storing all sorts
of information from government files to company employee records to consumer
shopping habits." What do you think about that?


- -
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)



http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/valkommen.html
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/it/ceramicasvedeseuno.html
 
S

Steve Pugh

Luigi Donatello Asero said:
Why do you think that it would be a good solution? Why do you think that a
search
engine which for example would let users look for more words simultaneously
would help more than a database or/and the site map and/or the navigation
menu?

A decent search engine increases the usability of your site, it lets
users find what they came to the site for quicker and easier. A
limited search facility will often work against you - it will
frustrate the user or mislead them into thinking you don't have the
information or product they want. In other words a bad search engine
is worse than no search engine at all.

A site map can also make it easier for users to find what they are
looking for, especially if they are looking for something that is hard
to express in search terms.

So, if resources permit include both a good search engine and a site
map.

A database is another matter entirely. To the end user whether a site
uses a database or not should make no difference at all. They see web
pages, whether those web pages are static HTML or generated from data
stored in a database should not be their concern.
I read a short introduction about databases at
http://www.htmlgoodies.com/
and it also says "In today's world you just can't escape the database. Right
now there are literally over a million databases at work storing all sorts
of information from government files to company employee records to consumer
shopping habits." What do you think about that?

That's a perfectly true statement, but what does it have to do with
your site? All the above quote is saying is that databases are widely
used.

What advantages do you think a database would offer your site?

Steve
 
B

Big Bill

I have much more than 300 pages within my website but I think that it would
be very difficult to find just one keyword phrase because my
one-man business offers a lot of different things, for example e-commerce of
Swedish and Italian ceramics and intermediation for rent (even
intermediation for rent exchange) of holidays lodgings which are situated in
Sweden and in Italy, interpreting and so on.
Does a database help create a sitemap?

No. I'm thinking that perhaps you should split your site into several
smaller sites each dealing with one aspect of your various businesses.
They'd be a lot easier to optimise.

BB
 
H

Hywel Jenkins

Why do you think that it would be a good solution? Why do you think that a
search
engine which for example would let users look for more words simultaneously
would help more than a database or/and the site map and/or the navigation
menu?

How do you think you'd access masses of data stored in a database?
You'll still need a more advanced search mechanism. Do you think
information magically presents itself from a database? Do you think it
would be easier to search for many words simultaneously within a
database? Why? At the moment you already have a database - it's just
that your "records" are stored in directories instead of tables, and
files instead of records.

I read a short introduction about databases at
http://www.htmlgoodies.com/
and it also says "In today's world you just can't escape the database. Right
now there are literally over a million databases at work storing all sorts
of information from government files to company employee records to consumer
shopping habits." What do you think about that?

I think nothing of it. I think you need to get a better understanding
of what a database is and why one should use one. The problem you have
at the moment is that your current method of searching what would seem a
poorly structured site is too simplistic. Whether you use a database or
not is irrelevant - you still have to search for the information
somehow.

Why don't you just go ahead and start storing your information in a
database? It won't be long before you're stuck with the same problem
that you have now, that is, your current search engine is rubbish.
Alternatively, build your 1,000 link site map. I can assure that such a
method will be worse for your visitors. You'll be better off if you
structure your site in such a way that pages can be grouped under
similar subjects.

Luigi, as always, you ask for help but do not take on board the advice
that has been given. If your site is of any importance to your
business, it's time you employed someone to build it for you. It's
quite clear that you have no understanding of what a database is, how it
works, or how it can benefit you. Until you can get yourself to the
point where you understand how it can or cannot help you, you should
leave them well alone.
 
B

Big Bill

Why do you think that it would be a good solution? Why do you think that a
search
engine which for example would let users look for more words simultaneously
would help more than a database or/and the site map and/or the navigation
menu?
I read a short introduction about databases at
http://www.htmlgoodies.com/
and it also says "In today's world you just can't escape the database. Right
now there are literally over a million databases at work storing all sorts
of information from government files to company employee records to consumer
shopping habits." What do you think about that?

I think it's very true. What do you use to find an item in, say,
Google's database? You use the Google search engine.
Nuff said!

BB


- -
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Similar Threads


Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
474,082
Messages
2,570,589
Members
47,211
Latest member
Shamestone

Latest Threads

Top