What is the Qur’ân?

[al albani]

I know that my article is not related to this group ,but it might be
useful. PLEASE read it.

The Qur’ân is the name given to Allah’s speech that He revealed to His
servant and Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him); speech that is
recited as an act of worship, is miraculous, and cannot be imitated by
man. It is the name of Allah’s Book, and no other book is called by
this name.

The connection between the Creator and his Creation is by way of His
Messengers, and these Messengers only know what Allah wants from them
by way of revelation, either directly or indirectly. The rational mind
cannot dismiss the possibility of revelation, since nothing is
difficult for the all-powerful Creator

revelation is a communication between two beings: one that speaks,
commands, and gives, and another who is addressed, commanded, and
receives. Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) – as with every Prophet
– never confused himself with the One who gave the revelation to him.
As a human being, he felt his weakness before Allah, feared Allah’s
wrath if he should disobey, and hoped for Allah’s mercy.

Proves why it is impossible that Mohammad (Pbuh) wrote the Quran :
1. No matter how brilliant or insightful a person might be, there is
no way that he could discuss the happenings of nations lost to
antiquity, issues of belief and Divine Law, the rewards and
punishments of Heaven and Hell, and future events, all in such great
detail without any contradiction and with a most perfect style and
literary form. The Prophet (peace be upon him) had never once read a
book nor met with any historian
2. The Qur’ân makes to the disbelievers a stern challenge that they
will never be able to produce a chapter similar to it. Such a
challenge would never have come from the Messenger (peace be upon him)
3. The Qur’ân, in some places, sternly rebukes Muhammad (peace be upon
him) where he acted upon his own judgment in something and did not
decide on what is best. The Qur’ân clarified the truth and showed the
error of the Prophet (peace be upon him).
4. Many verses of the Qur’ân begin with the imperative verb “Say!” As
a matter of fact, this occurs more than three hundred times,
addressing Muhammad (peace be upon him) and directing him with respect
to what he should say. He, thus, did not follow his own desires; he
followed only what was revealed to him.
5. Complete harmony exists between what the Qur’ân says regarding the
physical world and what has been discovered by modern science. This
has been a source of amazement for a number of contemporary western
researchers

For more information about Islam
www.imanway1.com

 

[snex]

I know that my article is not related to this group ,but it might be
useful. PLEASE read it.

The Qur’ân is the name given to Allah’s speech that He revealed to His
servant and Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him); speech that is
recited as an act of worship, is miraculous, and cannot be imitated by
man. It is the name of Allah’s Book, and no other book is called by
this name.

The connection between the Creator and his Creation is by way of His
Messengers, and these Messengers only know what Allah wants from them
by way of revelation, either directly or indirectly. The rational mind
cannot dismiss the possibility of revelation, since nothing is
difficult for the all-powerful Creator

revelation is a communication between two beings: one that speaks,
commands, and gives, and another who is addressed, commanded, and
receives. Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) – as with every Prophet
– never confused himself with the One who gave the revelation to him.
As a human being, he felt his weakness before Allah, feared Allah’s
wrath if he should disobey, and hoped for Allah’s mercy.

Proves why it is impossible that Mohammad (Pbuh) wrote the Quran :
1. No matter how brilliant or insightful a person might be, there is
no way that he could discuss the happenings of nations lost to
antiquity, issues of belief and Divine Law, the rewards and
punishments of Heaven and Hell, and future events, all in such great
detail without any contradiction and with a most perfect style and
literary form. The Prophet (peace be upon him) had never once read a
book nor met with any historian
2. The Qur’ân makes to the disbelievers a stern challenge that they
will never be able to produce a chapter similar to it. Such a
challenge would never have come from the Messenger (peace be upon him)
3. The Qur’ân, in some places, sternly rebukes Muhammad (peace be upon
him) where he acted upon his own judgment in something and did not
decide on what is best. The Qur’ân clarified the truth and showed the
error of the Prophet (peace be upon him).
4. Many verses of the Qur’ân begin with the imperative verb “Say!” As
a matter of fact, this occurs more than three hundred times,
addressing Muhammad (peace be upon him) and directing him with respect
to what he should say. He, thus, did not follow his own desires; he
followed only what was revealed to him.
5. Complete harmony exists between what the Qur’ân says regarding the
physical world and what has been discovered by modern science. This
has been a source of amazement for a number of contemporary western
researchers

For more information about Islamwww.imanway1.com

mohammad was a pedophile.

 

[Tom Cloyd]

mohammad was a pedophile.

Uh, dude, it's really bad form to make such allegations with
documentation of some sort. Plain irresponsible. I doubt that you have
any, but how are we to know? In fact, you may even be unfamiliar with
the concept, but that's another story.

FYI, a lot of this fairly straightforward Islamic stuff is coming out of
well funded effort in Turkey to get some reasonably accurate information
about Islam out into the world, to combat some of the racist,
xenophobic, colossally ignorant rant that pours out of certain centers
of ignorance in the US and elsewhere. I do NOT approve of this spamming
of this list, but let's try to keep our heads on and our facts straight.
And yes, Islam deserves a far better shake in the non-Islamic world than
it's gotten of late. For one thing, Islamic universities preserved Greek
wisdom during the dark ages, at a time when my ancestors (and quite
possibly yours) were living with and like pigs, in dark, cold places.
The Christian (?) Crusaders brought back Aristotle to Europe from these
Islamic centers of learning, to the amazement and perplexity of, among
others, the Catholic Church, which as usual was busy spinning tales
about how it invented sunshine.

Finally, I have no horse in this race. None at all, other than a
lifelong commitment to trying to educate myself and act intelligently
and compassionately when it really matters. Care to join me?

T.

--

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tom Cloyd, MS MA, LMHC - Private practice Psychotherapist
Bellingham, Washington, U.S.A: (360) 920-1226
<< (e-mail address removed) >> (email)
<< TomCloyd.com >> (website)
<< sleightmind.wordpress.com >> (mental health weblog)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[snex]

Uh, dude, it's really bad form to make such allegations with
documentation of some sort. Plain irresponsible. I doubt that you have
any, but how are we to know? In fact, you may even be unfamiliar with
the concept, but that's another story.

their own holy books state it. he married aisha at the tender young
age of 6.

FYI, a lot of this fairly straightforward Islamic stuff is coming out of
well funded effort in Turkey to get some reasonably accurate information
about Islam out into the world, to combat some of the racist,
xenophobic, colossally ignorant rant that pours out of certain centers
of ignorance in the US and elsewhere. I do NOT approve of this spamming
of this list, but let's try to keep our heads on and our facts straight.
And yes, Islam deserves a far better shake in the non-Islamic world than
it's gotten of late. For one thing, Islamic universities preserved Greek
wisdom during the dark ages, at a time when my ancestors (and quite
possibly yours) were living with and like pigs, in dark, cold places.
The Christian (?) Crusaders brought back Aristotle to Europe from these
Islamic centers of learning, to the amazement and perplexity of, among
others, the Catholic Church, which as usual was busy spinning tales
about how it invented sunshine.

this crap spam is not a well meaning effort to dispel myths about
islam, it is intended to convert the world to their delusions.

Finally, I have no horse in this race. None at all, other than a
lifelong commitment to trying to educate myself and act intelligently
and compassionately when it really matters. Care to join me?

attempting to engage in actual discussions with people who believe in
magical fairytales about men riding flying horses to mecca or being
born of virgins only gives them an air of legitimacy that they do not
deserve.

 

[Phlip]

this crap spam is not a well meaning effort to dispel myths about

islam, it is intended to convert the world to their delusions.

Then if the Quran is a powerless work of fiction, why do you fear it?

You sound like the OP - someone desperately trying to convince themselves...

 

[snex]

Then if the Quran is a powerless work of fiction, why do you fear it?

You sound like the OP - someone desperately trying to convince themselves....

i fear it? LOL. show me any fear in my posts.

no, i dont fear some silly book written by a barbaric pedophile from
the desert. i simply dont like spam and will not put up with it.

 

[Tom Cloyd]

[snip]

Uh, dude, it's really bad form to make such allegations with
documentation of some sort. Plain irresponsible. I doubt that you have
any, but how are we to know? In fact, you may even be unfamiliar with
the concept, but that's another story.

their own holy books state it. he married aisha at the tender young
age of 6.

FYI, a lot of this fairly straightforward Islamic stuff is coming out of
well funded effort in Turkey to get some reasonably accurate information
about Islam out into the world, to combat some of the racist,
xenophobic, colossally ignorant rant that pours out of certain centers
of ignorance in the US and elsewhere. I do NOT approve of this spamming
of this list, but let's try to keep our heads on and our facts straight.
And yes, Islam deserves a far better shake in the non-Islamic world than
it's gotten of late. For one thing, Islamic universities preserved Greek
wisdom during the dark ages, at a time when my ancestors (and quite
possibly yours) were living with and like pigs, in dark, cold places.
The Christian (?) Crusaders brought back Aristotle to Europe from these
Islamic centers of learning, to the amazement and perplexity of, among
others, the Catholic Church, which as usual was busy spinning tales
about how it invented sunshine.

this crap spam is not a well meaning effort to dispel myths about
islam, it is intended to convert the world to their delusions.

Again, you're behaving rudely. It's not crap. I get a lot of Christian
evangelical stuff at my door that's much more outrageous. This is just
coming from an earnest believer. Not my style, or yours, but also not
crap. If you want to be respected for your position, you would do well
to respect others more.

Not a well-meaning effort? Why not? It's not precisely objective, I
think, but what do you know of the writer's motivation? To me, it reads
as well meaning. The writer intends no harm to his readers. I cannot say
quite the same about you - you sound pretty hostile. Reminds of certain
religious fanatics I've had contact with.

As for the conversion business, I don't see that at all. The writer is
not talking about you and me, but about the Qur’ân and the Prophet, as
he is referred to. How is that an attempt to convert? I think this piece
is an attempt to correct some mis-perceptions. Out of place thought it
is, it still is not at all as you have characterized it. The first
principle of good scholarship is to get the text right. In this, I think
you have failed outright.

attempting to engage in actual discussions with people who believe in
magical fairytales about men riding flying horses to mecca or being
born of virgins only gives them an air of legitimacy that they do not
deserve.

You believe in flying horses and virgin births? Really? You're the only
one I'm talking with. I have not written a word to the author of the
original email. Again, you are not well attending to what's going on.
I'd say that your prejudices are not serving you well, but that's just
my opinion.

As for me, I don't hew to any organized religion. Don't need to. I
program in Ruby, and I'm rather sure that Matz walks on water. Must be a
Japanese thing - you know, surrounded by all that water... A gene pool
adaptation of some sort, rarely seen. Don't worry - just a speculation,
not a new "faith-based initiative" (Gaaack!).

t.


--

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tom Cloyd, MS MA, LMHC - Private practice Psychotherapist
Bellingham, Washington, U.S.A: (360) 920-1226
<< (e-mail address removed) >> (email)
<< TomCloyd.com >> (website)
<< sleightmind.wordpress.com >> (mental health weblog)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Tom Cloyd]

i fear it? LOL. show me any fear in my posts.

no, i dont fear some silly book written by a barbaric pedophile from
the desert. i simply dont like spam and will not put up with it.

Then attack the spamming, not the religion. Islam is a major world
religion, with some very high moral ideals. If my own culture weren't so
colossally ignorant of other people and their cultures and religions, it
- and possibly you - would already know this. Again, get your damned
facts straight.

As for Mohamed's purported marriage to a 6 year old, do you not know
that "marriage" means many things in many cultures, and that betrothal
of children in marriage is a rather common cultural trait, AND that the
custom in virtually all cases of which I know (I have a Masters in
Cultural Anthropology) is that child is reared by its family until puberty?

No slack, buddy. The more you write, the more you screw up. Time to go
study up a bit. You could use it.

t.

--

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tom Cloyd, MS MA, LMHC - Private practice Psychotherapist
Bellingham, Washington, U.S.A: (360) 920-1226
<< (e-mail address removed) >> (email)
<< TomCloyd.com >> (website)
<< sleightmind.wordpress.com >> (mental health weblog)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[snex]

[snip]

FYI, a lot of this fairly straightforward Islamic stuff is coming out of
well funded effort in Turkey to get some reasonably accurate information
about Islam out into the world, to combat some of the racist,
xenophobic, colossally ignorant rant that pours out of certain centers
of ignorance in the US and elsewhere. I do NOT approve of this spamming
of this list, but let's try to keep our heads on and our facts straight.
And yes, Islam deserves a far better shake in the non-Islamic world than
it's gotten of late. For one thing, Islamic universities preserved Greek
wisdom during the dark ages, at a time when my ancestors (and quite
possibly yours) were living with and like pigs, in dark, cold places.
The Christian (?) Crusaders brought back Aristotle to Europe from these
Islamic centers of learning, to the amazement and perplexity of, among
others, the Catholic Church, which as usual was busy spinning tales
about how it invented sunshine.

this crap spam is not a well meaning effort to dispel myths about
islam, it is intended to convert the world to their delusions.

Again, you're behaving rudely. It's not crap. I get a lot of Christian
evangelical stuff at my door that's much more outrageous. This is just
coming from an earnest believer. Not my style, or yours, but also not
crap. If you want to be respected for your position, you would do well
to respect others more.

Not a well-meaning effort? Why not? It's not precisely objective, I
think, but what do you know of the writer's motivation? To me, it reads
as well meaning. The writer intends no harm to his readers. I cannot say
quite the same about you - you sound pretty hostile. Reminds of certain
religious fanatics I've had contact with.

the fact that this shit is spam-posted to several completely unrelated
groups tells me all i need to know. its spam. it should be treated
like spam. its author should be discouraged from further disseminating
it to people who did not request it.

 

[snex]

Then attack the spamming, not the religion. Islam is a major world
religion, with some very high moral ideals. If my own culture weren't so
colossally ignorant of other people and their cultures and religions, it
- and possibly you - would already know this. Again, get your damned
facts straight.

you should read the quran sometime. you might change your opinion of
its "high moral ideals." of course, you could also see how moral most
muslims are by just turning on the news sometime. they scream for the
deaths of cartoonists, they commit honor killings, and they hijack
airplanes and fly them into skyscrapers.

As for Mohamed's purported marriage to a 6 year old, do you not know
that "marriage" means many things in many cultures, and that betrothal
of children in marriage is a rather common cultural trait, AND that the
custom in  virtually all cases of which I know (I have a Masters in
Cultural Anthropology) is that child is reared by its family until puberty?

why dont you tell us what "marriage" meant back then in that culture
then? by the way, it is also stated that the marriage was consummated
when she was 9.

but youll just pretend that means something else too, wont ya?

and dont forget, this is all coming from a guy who claims to hold the
objective morality given to him by god himself. citing cultural
differences as excuses for his moral failings only further weakens
their position.

No slack, buddy. The more you write, the more you screw up. Time to go
study up a bit. You could use it.

then quit responding to me. you are only giving the spam more
prominence.

 

[David Masover]

attempting to engage in actual discussions with people who believe in
magical fairytales about men riding flying horses to mecca or being
born of virgins only gives them an air of legitimacy that they do not
deserve.

Unfortunately, they already have that air of legitimacy.

Which means that responding the way you did does not help your cause. It
means that moderately religious people, rather than considering your
argument seriously, will write you off as an asshole and not seriously
consider anything you have to say.

And not everyone is raised atheist. Otherwise-rational people are still
going to find it hard to give up their childhood faith.

If your purpose is merely to keep spam off the list, you've done the
equivalent of respond to one of the "unsubscribe" messages spammed to
the whole list. If you don't like it, mark it as spam and don't read it
-- I have. But engaging in a debate with them, civil or not, is
encouraging this offtopic thread, and is bringing more attention to
their cause than they deserve.

 

[Ken Bloom]

I know that my article is not related to this group ,but it might be
useful. PLEASE read it.

The Qur’ân is the name given to Allah’s speech that He revealed to His
servant and Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him); speech that is
recited as an act of worship, is miraculous, and cannot be imitated by
man. It is the name of Allah’s Book, and no other book is called by this
name.

The connection between the Creator and his Creation is by way of His
Messengers, and these Messengers only know what Allah wants from them by
way of revelation, either directly or indirectly. The rational mind
cannot dismiss the possibility of revelation, since nothing is difficult
for the all-powerful Creator

revelation is a communication between two beings: one that speaks,
commands, and gives, and another who is addressed, commanded, and
receives. Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) – as with every Prophet –
never confused himself with the One who gave the revelation to him. As a
human being, he felt his weakness before Allah, feared Allah’s wrath if
he should disobey, and hoped for Allah’s mercy.

Proves why it is impossible that Mohammad (Pbuh) wrote the Quran : 1. No
matter how brilliant or insightful a person might be, there is no way
that he could discuss the happenings of nations lost to antiquity,
issues of belief and Divine Law, the rewards and punishments of Heaven
and Hell, and future events, all in such great detail without any
contradiction and with a most perfect style and literary form. The
Prophet (peace be upon him) had never once read a book nor met with any
historian
2. The Qur’ân makes to the disbelievers a stern challenge that they will
never be able to produce a chapter similar to it. Such a challenge would
never have come from the Messenger (peace be upon him) 3. The Qur’ân, in
some places, sternly rebukes Muhammad (peace be upon him) where he acted
upon his own judgment in something and did not decide on what is best.
The Qur’ân clarified the truth and showed the error of the Prophet
(peace be upon him). 4. Many verses of the Qur’ân begin with the
imperative verb “Say!†As a matter of fact, this occurs more than three
hundred times, addressing Muhammad (peace be upon him) and directing him
with respect to what he should say. He, thus, did not follow his own
desires; he followed only what was revealed to him. 5. Complete harmony
exists between what the Qur’ân says regarding the physical world and
what has been discovered by modern science. This has been a source of
amazement for a number of contemporary western researchers

For more information about Islam
www.imanway1.com

Discussion of the Quran and other fake "holy" books is off topic for ruby-
talk. Take your discussion somewhere else. Only real holy books such as
Pickaxe and Why's (poignant) guide may be discussed here. ;-)

--Ken

 

[Redd Vinylene]

You think you're doing Muslims a favor, but really you're just making them
all look like fools.

Plus what you write ain't even interesting. You should do as the Koran tell=
s
you to; get an education and travel the world in search of knowledge and
understanding, because obviously, you ain't got none of that. Nor do I for
that matter, but I know there are more interesting things to say about the
Koran:

Like what the Koran says about the Big Bang and the expansion of the
universe, centuries before the Hubble Telescope proved it to be true:
021.030: "Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were
joined together as one, before we clove them asunder?" and 051.047: "We
created the heavens with strength, and verily, We are expanding it."

Or the earth's protective layers, 002.029: "His design comprehended the
heavens, for He gave order and perfection to the seven firmaments." and
021.032: "We made the sky a preserved and protected roof." shielding us fro=
m
harmful radiation, meteors and space debris, as well as to allow for
satellite communications and the like: 086.011: "By heaven with its
returning system."

Or the arrival of iron from distant galaxies, as it cannot be formed in our
own: 057.025: "We sent down iron, with which there is material for mighty
war, as well as benefits for mankind.", oceanographic surface tension:
055.019: "He has let free the two seas, meeting together: Between them is a
barrier that is not transgressed."

I heard on BBC the other day that man kind most likely evolved inside mud.
018.086: "Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in
a spring of muddy water: near it he found a people."

What about how nobody's ever been able to find a single flaw in the Koran?
There are people who claim they have but their arguments are easily
debunked. Unlike the Bible and the Torah, in which a great deal of
translations and modifications have distorted the messages from ancient
prophets. 004.082: "Do they not consider the Quran? Had it been from other
than God, surely they would have found therein much discrepancy."

Or how the Koran remains unimitable by humans, due to its advanced rhythmic
pattern, meaning and appeal. 002.023: "And if you are in doubt about which
We have revealed, then bring one chapter like it."

And so on and so forth.

I know that my article is not related to this group ,but it might be
useful. PLEASE read it.

The Qur=92=E2n is the name given to Allah=92s speech that He revealed to = His
servant and Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him); speech that is
recited as an act of worship, is miraculous, and cannot be imitated by
man. It is the name of Allah=92s Book, and no other book is called by
this name.

The connection between the Creator and his Creation is by way of His
Messengers, and these Messengers only know what Allah wants from them
by way of revelation, either directly or indirectly. The rational mind
cannot dismiss the possibility of revelation, since nothing is
difficult for the all-powerful Creator

revelation is a communication between two beings: one that speaks,
commands, and gives, and another who is addressed, commanded, and
receives. Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) =96 as with every Prophet
=96 never confused himself with the One who gave the revelation to him.
As a human being, he felt his weakness before Allah, feared Allah=92s
wrath if he should disobey, and hoped for Allah=92s mercy.

Proves why it is impossible that Mohammad (Pbuh) wrote the Quran :
1. No matter how brilliant or insightful a person might be, there is
no way that he could discuss the happenings of nations lost to
antiquity, issues of belief and Divine Law, the rewards and
punishments of Heaven and Hell, and future events, all in such great
detail without any contradiction and with a most perfect style and
literary form. The Prophet (peace be upon him) had never once read a
book nor met with any historian
2. The Qur=92=E2n makes to the disbelievers a stern challenge that they
will never be able to produce a chapter similar to it. Such a
challenge would never have come from the Messenger (peace be upon him)
3. The Qur=92=E2n, in some places, sternly rebukes Muhammad (peace be upo= n
him) where he acted upon his own judgment in something and did not
decide on what is best. The Qur=92=E2n clarified the truth and showed the
error of the Prophet (peace be upon him).
4. Many verses of the Qur=92=E2n begin with the imperative verb =93Say!= =94 As
a matter of fact, this occurs more than three hundred times,
addressing Muhammad (peace be upon him) and directing him with respect
to what he should say. He, thus, did not follow his own desires; he
followed only what was revealed to him.
5. Complete harmony exists between what the Qur=92=E2n says regarding the
physical world and what has been discovered by modern science. This
has been a source of amazement for a number of contemporary western
researchers

For more information about Islam
www.imanway1.com

--=20
http://www.home.no/reddvinylene

 

[Redd Vinylene]

[Note: parts of this message were removed to make it a legal post.]

you should read the quran sometime. you might change your opinion of
its "high moral ideals." of course, you could also see how moral most
muslims are by just turning on the news sometime. they scream for the
deaths of cartoonists, they commit honor killings, and they hijack
airplanes and fly them into skyscrapers.

The youth have always been rebellious. Just look at what happens at the G8
meetings! As for honor killings, suicide bombing and the like, this is
strictly prohibited in Islam. It's a crime. Every nation on earth has
criminals though, so what can you do?

why dont you tell us what "marriage" meant back then in that culture

then?

Protection from being captured and tortured to death by pagan Arabs.

 

[Mark Wadham]

What does Islam have to do with Ruby? Other than the ironic correlation of
religion being completely non-pragmatic.

 

[Robert Dober]

I consider it harassment to be lectured about religion, even mine!!!

There is however one nice thing about civilized posting, you can put
your personal view into signatures....

Enough troll feeding for 2009.

Robert

 

[Robert Dober]

Discussion of the Quran and other fake "holy" books is off topic for ruby-

talk. Take your discussion somewhere else. Only real holy books such as
Pickaxe and Why's (poignant) guide may be discussed here. ;-)

Oh my god, we have a schism here, you believe in Pickaxe and I prefer
Cakepics, or was it Bakekicks, this religious stuff confuses me....

--
There are some people who begin the Zoo at the beginning, called
WAYIN, and walk as quickly as they can past every cage until they get
to the one called WAYOUT, but the nicest people go straight to the
animal they love the most, and stay there. ~ A.A. Milne (from
Winnie-the-Pooh)

 

[ntwrkd]

/ban