where are the program that are written in python?

[Deep_Feelings]

python is not a new programming language ,it has been there for the
last .... 15+ years or so ? right ?

however by having a look at this page http://wiki.python.org/moin/Applications
i could not see many programs written in python (i will be interested
more in COMMERCIAL programs written in python ). and to be honest ,i
tried some of the programs in that list and all the programs that i
tried either dead projects or so buggy !

1- where are the programs that is written in python ?
2- python is high productivity language : why there are no commercial
programs written in python ?

is python a valid practical programming language ?
why it is not used in commercial software ?

please don't mention programs where python was used as a glue ,those
programs are not actually written in python.

any help will be appreciated

thank you

 

[Simon Brunning]

1- where are the programs that is written in python ?
2- python is high productivity language : why there are no commercial
programs written in python ?

See http://www.python.org/about/success/

 

[Martin P. Hellwig]

python is not a new programming language ,it has been there for the
last .... 15+ years or so ? right ? Yeah about the same as Java

however by having a look at this page http://wiki.python.org/moin/Applications
i could not see many programs written in python (i will be interested
more in COMMERCIAL programs written in python ). and to be honest ,i
tried some of the programs in that list and all the programs that i
tried either dead projects or so buggy !

It's a wiki, if anybody is interested they could change the page, I
actually have never looked at it.

1- where are the programs that is written in python ?
2- python is high productivity language : why there are no commercial
programs written in python ?

is python a valid practical programming language ?
why it is not used in commercial software ?

My experience is that Python is the FreeBSD of the programming
languages. For example, the average user knows mac and windows, the
average admin knows there is also something like linux, and the average
linux admin knows there is also something like BSD.

please don't mention programs where python was used as a glue ,those
programs are not actually written in python.

Python is used in a lot in custom applications, while off the shelve
software needs a lot of buzzwords to shift any market interest.
I have participated in a couple of 'pure' Python programs, used by
Airbus, Randstad and a whole fleet of small firms. But yes, off the
shelve software seems to be either written in Java or any .net equivalent.

any help will be appreciated

thank you

hth

 

[Deep_Feelings]

Seehttp://www.python.org/about/success/

thankx for reply.

from that list i have a feeling that python is acting only as "quick
and dirty work" nothing more !

 

[News123]

thankx for reply.

from that list i have a feeling that python is acting only as "quick
and dirty work" nothing more !

Too bad, that still nobody feels insulted isn't it?

 

[Simon Brunning]

from that list i have a feeling that python is acting only as "quick
and dirty work" nothing more !

Really?

Well, in any case, I can tell you that I know of a number of large
commercial web sites built with Django. I just can't tell you what
they are. ;-)

 

[Wolfgang Rohdewald]

would you call 8702 python statements big? If so,
Kajongg would be a candidate.

 

[Adam Tauno Williams]

Most projects are dead projects; that is just the natural state of
things regardless of language. Just browse Sourceforge for awhile.

It's a wiki, if anybody is interested they could change the page, I
actually have never looked at it.

I've looked it over, there is some interesting stuff. But why
contribute a story when you could be coding on your project! A
perennial problem.

I suppose it depends on your use of the term "used". It is used a *lot*
in the SOA / Workflow world - in the form of Jython. That provides a
very nice way to extend Java applications [it is still Python! Python
is a language, not a runtime].

In general to 'core' of large applications are, IMO, easier to maintain
in the more rigid statically typed languages as the toolchain can do
more work for you. Of course someone here will have a fit about that
statement.

Why not?

And what about Gwibber? Zeitgeist? BitTorrent? Zope/Plone? Those are
all certainly "real" applications. Zope is almost an industry unto
itself.

,those programs are not actually written in python.

I think your distinction is not valid. "glue" is a vital part of every
enterprise. And the sophistication of some "glue" certainly surpasses
many "applications".

Python is used in a lot in custom applications, while off the shelve
software needs a lot of buzzwords to shift any market interest.
I have participated in a couple of 'pure' Python programs, used by
Airbus, Randstad and a whole fleet of small firms. But yes, off the
shelve software seems to be either written in Java or any .net equivalent.

<http://hackerboss.com/how-to-distribute-commercial-python-applications/> is an interesting read. Certainly the 'packaging' mechanism is less end-user friendly than .NET. I personally would not choose to create an end-user application in Python; but it has become my first choice for server-side development.

 

[Jason Scheirer]

python is not a new programming language ,it has been there for the
last .... 15+ years or so ? right ?

however by having a look at this pagehttp://wiki.python.org/moin/Applications
i could not see many programs written in python (i will be interested
more in COMMERCIAL programs written in python ). and to be honest ,i
tried some of the programs in that list and all the programs that i
tried either dead projects or so buggy !

1- where are the programs that is written in python ?
2- python is high productivity language : why there are no commercial
programs written in python ?

is python a valid practical programming language ?
why it is not used in commercial software ?

please don't mention programs where python was used as a glue ,those
programs are not actually written in python.

any help will be appreciated

thank you

I write commercial software full-time in Python (well, mixed with C++)
at ESRI. I have been able to make a living developing in Python full
time at various places for the last 4 years. I can assure you that
there is plenty of commercial software out there that uses Python. The
reason you don't *see* it is because the development language for a
commercial product is a lot less important than the functionality of
the product, so "WRITTEN IN PYTHON!!!!" is likely not going to be a
bullet point on a marketing slide. And quite frankly, it should be a
trade secret for the companies enlightened enough to use it as their
language of choice because it is to productive that it provides a
competitive advantage.

 

[Terry Reedy]

thankx for reply.

from that list i have a feeling that python is acting only as "quick
and dirty work" nothing more !

Try 'quick and clean' and you would be more accurate.

But that would not be so trollish, would it?

tjr

 

[Patrick Maupin]

i could not see many programs written in python

Well you could try PyPi, or even a search on googlecode.

(i will be interested
more in COMMERCIAL programs written in python ).

What do you mean by commercial, and why?

and to be honest ,i
tried some of the programs in that list and all the programs that i
tried either dead projects or so buggy !

So, you want us to believe that you desperately want to pay someone
for working Python software, but are finding it hard to find some?

1- where are the programs that is written in python ?

All over the place.

2- python is high productivity language : why there are no commercial
programs written in python ?

There are a lot of commercial programs written in Python. But any
company which thinks it has a lock on some kind of super secret sauce
isn't going to use Python, because it's very easy to reverse engineer
even compiled Python programs. Also, any company in a competitive
market where execution speed is extremely important might choose some
other language because, frankly, the fact that a development tool is
highly productive is not something that the end user directly cares
about. (But the up-front choice of another language simply for speed,
rather than prototyping with Python and then recoding the slow bits,
would probably be a decision borne of ignorance.)

is python a valid practical programming language ?

Absolutely. I've been using it heavily for 11 years, for real work,
for which I get paid.

why it is not used in commercial software ?

What makes you think that it's not? Is this some kind of "big lie"
strategy? To what end?

any help will be appreciated

It's hard to help when you don't describe the problem. Reading
between the lines, the most charitable and probable interpretation of
your problem I can come up with is that you think you're going to
create a multi-billion dollar computer program and you're desperately
trying to validate your preconceived notion that Python isn't the
language to write it in. Sorry, but I can't help with that.

Regards,
Pat

 

[geremy condra]

thankx for reply.

from that list i have a feeling that python is acting only as "quick
and dirty work" nothing more !

Yeah, there's not really a lot of industry support. If only we could
get a huge search engine like bing to use python extensively we'd
be in a lot better shape.

Geremy Condra

 

[Terry Reedy]

python is not a new programming language ,it has been there for the
last .... 15+ years or so ? right ?

however by having a look at this page http://wiki.python.org/moin/Applications
i could not see many programs written in python (i will be interested
more in COMMERCIAL programs written in python ). and to be honest ,i

There are two kinds of 'commercial' programs.
1. The vast majority are proprietary programs kept within a company for
its own use. As long as these work as intended, they are mostly
invisible to the outside world.
2. Programs sold to anyone who wants them.

Python trades programmer speed for execution speed. If a successful
Python program is going to be run millions of times, it makes economic
sense to convert time-hogging parts to (for instance) C. In fact, this
is a consideration in deciding what functions should be builtin and
which stdlib modules are written or rewritten in C.

Programs being sold tend to be compared to competitors on speed with
perhaps more weight than they rationally should. Speed is easier to
measure than, for instance, lack of bugs.

Python programs can be and sometimes are distributed as .exe files. The
users of such neither know nor care that some of the source is Python.

tried some of the programs in that list and all the programs that i
tried either dead projects or so buggy !

1- where are the programs that is written in python ?

Mostly kept private. For instance, GvR, Python's inventor, spent part of
his first year at Google writing a neat-looking programmer console
program in Python (Mondrian) designed to improve the productivity of
Google programmers. As far as I know, Google has not released it.

please don't mention programs where python was used as a glue ,those
programs are not actually written in python.

A C program glues together micro-coded functions. Even a 'pure' CPython
program glues together C-coded functions. Some are in builtins, some are
imported from the stdlib, and some can be imported from 3rd party
packages. The extensibility of CPython is part of its design.

Terry Jan Reedy

 

[Tim Chase]

Yeah, there's not really a lot of industry support. If only we could
get a huge search engine like bing to use python extensively we'd
be in a lot better shape.

Or if an organization known to hire a bunch of rocket-scientists
were to use Python...that would make it a real language...

-tkc


http://www.python.org/about/success/usa/

 

[Aahz]

There are a lot of commercial programs written in Python. But any
company which thinks it has a lock on some kind of super secret sauce
isn't going to use Python, because it's very easy to reverse engineer
even compiled Python programs.

That's not always true. Both my employer (Egnyte) and one of our main
competitors (Dropbox) use Python in our clients. We don't care much
because using our servers is a requirement of the client.

 

[Lie Ryan]

There are two kinds of 'commercial' programs.
1. The vast majority are proprietary programs kept within a company for
its own use. As long as these work as intended, they are mostly
invisible to the outside world.
2. Programs sold to anyone who wants them.

Python trades programmer speed for execution speed. If a successful
Python program is going to be run millions of times, it makes economic
sense to convert time-hogging parts to (for instance) C. In fact, this
is a consideration in deciding what functions should be builtin and
which stdlib modules are written or rewritten in C.

Programs being sold tend to be compared to competitors on speed with
perhaps more weight than they rationally should. Speed is easier to
measure than, for instance, lack of bugs.

doubting python's speed? Look at Mercurial vs. SVN; Mercurial is written
in Python while SVN in C. Mercurial beats SVN in speed by several orders
of magnitude.

One of Mercurial's design goal was to be faster than SVN, if the
programmers have naively believed that choice of language would matter
to program's speed, they'd choose to write Mercurial in assembly instead
(the same argument applies to Git, written in shell scripts).

Now, you may think this is an unfair comparison, since Mercurial is hype
and new, SVN is antiquated and old. But it shows that in real-life, the
language being inherently slow often dosn't matter. What matters more
are the choice of data structure and algorithm, I/O speed, network
latency, and development speed.

 

[Chris Rebert]

doubting python's speed? Look at Mercurial vs. SVN; Mercurial is written
in Python while SVN in C. Mercurial beats SVN in speed by several orders
of magnitude.

Erm, in fairness, I recall hearing that some speed-critical bits of hg
are written in C. It does lend credence to the "Python as glue
language" argument though; I doubt hg's extensibility and friendly
interface would have been as easy to implement it C (particularly the
slick instant-server feature).

Cheers,
Chris

 

[Carl Banks]

please don't mention programs where python was used as a glue ,those
programs are not actually written in python.

I hate to answer a troll, but I'll just mention that when people talk
about a "glue language", they're not talking about using some Python
code to connect two big systems together (although Python is good for
that).

What they are saying is that Python is a good language to serve as
high-level logic interfacing lots of different library codes--often
but not always written in faster languages--together in one program.
In that case, yes, the program is written in Python.

The word "glue" is probably not the best metaphor, since to most
people it means "something you use to connect two objects together".
A better metaphor would be like a "substrate language".

A lot of materials do use a form of glue as the substrate, but never
mind that.


Carl Banks

 

[Patrick Maupin]

That's not always true.  Both my employer (Egnyte) and one of our main
competitors (Dropbox) use Python in our clients.  We don't care much
because using our servers is a requirement of the client.

Absolutely. I wrote my post after the OP's second post, and from that
short, derisive tome, I inferred that the OP's definition of
"commercial" was quite narrow, so I was trying to respond on the basis
of what he would consider "commercial," which BTW, probably wouldn't
include a lot of programs that, e.g. Google uses to make money.

Regards,
Pat

 

[Patrick Maupin]

Doesn't that mean those companies don't fit the above description? That
is, neither of them “thinks it has a lock on some kind of super secret
sauce” in the programs. So they don't seem to be counter-examples.

Just because someone has competition doesn't mean they don't think
they have secret sauce. I think Aahz's main point was that in his sub-
industry, the secret sauce is guarded by not actually letting the
customer have access to executable code, other than through the
network.

Regards,
Pat