[ANN] Forthcoming 2nd ed. of _The Ruby Way_

[Doug H]

I'd recommend the exact opposite. If you ignore the libraries and GUI
toolkits, the book is virtually useless. Most people are using ruby to
develop _applications_, not to learn programming for programming's
sake.

 

[Xavier Noria]

I'd recommend the exact opposite. If you ignore the libraries and GUI
toolkits, the book is virtually useless. Most people are using
ruby to
develop _applications_, not to learn programming for programming's
sake.

I agree with the other poster about the expectations the title
creates. I readed the book and was useful for me because i was
learning, practical issues are addressed, and you are exposed to
idiomatic Ruby. But I would expect it to evolve to explain "The Ruby
Way" of programming, so my vote goes there.

Explaining libraries and toolkits is certainly useful, but a topic
for a different book in my opinion.

-- fxn

 

[Gene Tani]

Hello, all.

Thought I might as well announce this "officially" as many people
know it already.

The ink is dry on the contract, and I am working on a second edition
of _The Ruby Way_. Expect to see it second quarter of 2006.

To summarize: About 100 pages deleted, about 250 pages added.
Updated from 1.6.8 to 1.8.4 (or thereabout).

"100 pages deleted": does this mean Rb vs. perl/python sections are
expendable? I can understand, these entail a *lot* of research, &
recently there's been an explosion of R vs. p/p/java/smalltalk/lisp
blogs which can be collected on 'Ruby eye for python guy' or some
wiki.

The part of Way r.1 that's most valuable to me today is the "Things to
remember" list on pages 45+

 

[GJB]

I especially like chapter 5 (OOP and Dynamicity in Ruby) in the current
edition of TRW. I hope that perhaps a similar chapter on metaprogramming can
be added.

I also especially like chapter 5. Definitely a chapter on
metaprogramming! I like the idea of advanced topics especially those
things are easily done in a dynamically typed language and difficult in
staticly typed languages. But I like the library coverage as well.
Write both and I'll buy both : ) If it's available in early access,
I'll buy that too!

Willing to put my money where my mouth is,

Gary Blomquist

 

[James Britt]

I'd recommend the exact opposite. If you ignore the libraries and GUI
toolkits, the book is virtually useless. Most people are using ruby to
develop _applications_, not to learn programming for programming's
sake.

Coding applications in Ruby without taking full advantage of what makes
Ruby Ruby is like walking up a hill backwards. You'll get where you
want to go, but it could be so much nicer.

A guide to libraries would be handy, but indeed many are ephemeral or in
flux, and learning a set of distinct APIs for one thing or another is no
substitute for a proper understanding of Ruby itself.

It's the difference between being a [application|library] scripter and a
Ruby programmer.


James



--

http://www.ruby-doc.org - Ruby Help & Documentation
http://www.artima.com/rubycs/ - Ruby Code & Style: Writers wanted
http://www.rubystuff.com - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff
http://www.jamesbritt.com - Playing with Better Toys
http://www.30secondrule.com - Building Better Tools

 

[Raphael Bauduin]

I can't cover everything, but I want to cover the important and
interesting
stuff (as time and space permit). If you see it in the "keyword soup"
below, it's under consideration. If you think I've forgotten something
important, please tell me in email.

One suggestion;

ncurses or equivalent (I hope I didn't miss it in the soup or the thread :=
-)

Raph

 

[Greg Donald]

If it's available in early access,
I'll buy that too!

Is that the plan? Seemed to work well for the Rails book. I'd
definitely buy a beta copy in PDF form (now) for a hard copy final
edition later.

 

[Laurent Julliard]

That's good news! On my wish list are: soap, xml/rpc, wsdl

Laurent

 

[Phil Tomson]

Aren't there "Advanced Ruby" books in japanese that could be
translated? I've been hoping for a long time someone would translate
that "Ruby Internals" book and others like it. But all I see is
another cookbook from O'Reilly and a bunch of Rails books. There's a
huge market here. I, for example, would buy any book that says
"Advanced Ruby" on the cover (without even bothering to open the book
and check out the contents)

Sorry for replying twice, but I wanted to get to this idea of translating
Japanese books. In Japan they have lots of smaller books that cover the
libraries. They basically have a similar form factor to O'Reilly pocket
guides. I think that's the way to cover libraries. One person may be very
interested in GUI programming but has absolutely no interest in network
programming (and vice verse). Plus, as a library changes, the smaller
single-focus book will be able to keep up with the changes much more easily.

Also, up till now there has been no Japanese Ruby book translated into
English (except for perahaps Ruby in a Nutshell). I suspect that there are
good reasons for this.

Phil

 

[Patrick Hurley]

We really need an advanced Ruby book now.

Shifting the focus of the thread a little bit, but what would your
idea table of contents look like in an Advanced Ruby book?

Off the top of my head randomly ordered:

* Variable Scope
* Regular Expressions
* Unit Testing
* Module
* Class
* Metaprogramming
* Domain Specific Languages
* Continuations
* Threads and Processes
* Extensions
* Embedding Ruby

pth

 

[Gavri Fernandez]

Sorry for replying twice, but I wanted to get to this idea of translating
Japanese books. In Japan they have lots of smaller books that cover the
libraries. They basically have a similar form factor to O'Reilly pocket
guides. I think that's the way to cover libraries. One person may be ve= ry
interested in GUI programming but has absolutely no interest in network
programming (and vice verse). Plus, as a library changes, the smaller
single-focus book will be able to keep up with the changes much more easi=

ly.

The Pragmatic Programmers are doing it
http://pragmaticprogrammer.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/page5.html

Also, up till now there has been no Japanese Ruby book translated into
English (except for perahaps Ruby in a Nutshell). I suspect that there ar= e
good reasons for this.

I guess the good hackers can't get interested in a translating job and
the not-so-good ones aren't approached by publishers.
Please. Could somebody make the sacrifice and translate a few books for us?=

 

[Bill Guindon]

Shifting the focus of the thread a little bit, but what would your
idea table of contents look like in an Advanced Ruby book?

Off the top of my head randomly ordered:

* Variable Scope
* Regular Expressions
* Unit Testing
* Module
* Class
* Metaprogramming
* Domain Specific Languages
* Continuations
* Threads and Processes
* Extensions
* Embedding Ruby

I _really_ like that list.

 

[James Britt]

...

It's the difference between being a [application|library] scripter and a
Ruby programmer.

'The Ruby Way' handles metaprogramming and other advanced topics in a
very cursory manner. More than half of The Ruby Way was concerned with
Ruby's libraries. But many of you seem to expect the second edition to
completely shift it's focus. I don't know how that's going to happen
just by ripping out 100 pages and adding 250 pages considering all the
new stuff from that keyword soup is going in.

I'm not arguing for Hal to change the direction of the book, just
suggesting that focusing on library usage for the sake of those looking
only to ship code is short-sighted.

I thought of The Ruby Way, 1st ed., as a better Ruby cookbook. It
showed how to do oft-needed tasks, but explained the hows and whys. If
certain of these tasks are best handled by an existing library, then so
be it. But the book helped me become a better Ruby programmer, not
merely better-versed in various tool APIs.

Aren't there "Advanced Ruby" books in japanese that could be
translated? I've been hoping for a long time someone would translate
that "Ruby Internals" book and others like it. But all I see is
another cookbook from O'Reilly and a bunch of Rails books. There's a
huge market here. I, for example, would buy any book that says
"Advanced Ruby" on the cover (without even bothering to open the book
and check out the contents)

I have high expectations for David Black's forthcoming book. I'd be
hard pressed to name another person I'd like to see a Ruby book from.


James Britt

--

http://www.ruby-doc.org - Ruby Help & Documentation
http://www.artima.com/rubycs/ - Ruby Code & Style: Writers wanted
http://www.rubystuff.com - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff
http://www.jamesbritt.com - Playing with Better Toys
http://www.30secondrule.com - Building Better Tools

 

[Gavri Fernandez]

I have high expectations for David Black's forthcoming book. I'd be
hard pressed to name another person I'd like to see a Ruby book from.

The book is called "Ruby for Rails" and the subtitle is "The Ruby you
need to master Rails". David Black is a great candidate to write that
Advanced Ruby book I wish existed, but I don't think it's this one. I
hope I'm wrong though.

 

[dblack]

Hi --

The book is called "Ruby for Rails" and the subtitle is "The Ruby you
need to master Rails". David Black is a great candidate to write that
Advanced Ruby book I wish existed, but I don't think it's this one. I
hope I'm wrong though.

Hmmm... that subtitle is actually a bit off: it's "Ruby techniques for
Rails developers" (as per the cover), though I see that it's listed
the way you've got it on at least one website. I'll put the official
version in my sig

In any case, the book is basically written for the "coming to Ruby
through Rails" constituency, broadly speaking. It covers some (not
all) of the topics that are coming up on people's table of contents
ideas for advanced Ruby. I think that's partly because of my belief
that some in things in Ruby, while certainly in a sense advanced, are
more accessible and learnable than their reputations sometimes
suggest. So, while working from the basics, I don't hesitate to aim
fairly high.


David

--
David A. Black
(e-mail address removed)

"Ruby for Rails: Ruby techniques for Rails developers",
forthcoming from Manning Publications, April 2006!

 

[Hal Fulton]

Can you use the community? Together we know a fair amount.

That's an understatement.

I'm using the community already. I knew that the announcement itself
would be followed by opinions expressed.

And I'll have questions as I go along. Believe me.

My experience is:
- Study, and you think you know something.
- Study harder, and you think are good at it.
- Use your knowledge, and you learn even more.
- Teach it, and you will learn still more.
- Write a book, and you will realize how little
you really know.


Hal

 

[Hal Fulton]

+1. I'd also be much more interested in pure, advanced Ruby rather than
specifics of this or that library.

I answered Phil in email, but I'll answer briefly here also.

What you say is compelling, but the fundamental style of the book
isn't going to change that much. There will be some coverage of
advanced techniques (as well as elementary techniques).

There will definitely be material added in the "more advanced"
sections. Some material will be deleted, but mostly because it is
boring, not because it is too elementary.

Coverage of specific libraries will be incomplete, and will occupy
the minority of the book. But this material will still be there.

Sorry if this disappoints. It's a design decision.


Hal

 

[Hal Fulton]

"100 pages deleted": does this mean Rb vs. perl/python sections are
expendable? I can understand, these entail a *lot* of research, &
recently there's been an explosion of R vs. p/p/java/smalltalk/lisp
blogs which can be collected on 'Ruby eye for python guy' or some
wiki.

Probably so. Those were longer than I intended in the first place.
To rewrite them would require time and effort (and help, since my
Perl is weak and my Python weaker).

The part of Way r.1 that's most valuable to me today is the "Things to
remember" list on pages 45+

I'm glad it was useful, but <sigh> I dread having to update it.


Hal

 

[Hal Fulton]

I bought your first book. Loved it.

I'm anxious to see the 100 pages you plan on deleting. Always good to know
the things to unlearn too.

There's not terribly much to unlearn. Some things that I showed how to
do are now part of the core (such as hyperbolic trig, base conversions, etc.).
Other things are just silly or irrelevant. Sometimes there is now a "better
way" to do things.

To find all the changes, you'd need the old TOC, the new TOC, and a long
rainy Saturday.



Hal

 

[Hal Fulton]

I guess I'm pushing for this shift of focus in The Ruby Way because it's
already about 1/2 way there. Again, I would suggest that any chapters dealing
with specific libraries, GUI toolkits should be eliminated from the 2nd ed.
and other chapters on advanced Ruby programming topics should be added. I
think this will help TRW become an enduring classic.

We really need an advanced Ruby book now. There are cookbooks on the horizon
and there are other Rails related titles as well as some introductory texts,
but I haven't heard about plans for an advanced book. I think The Ruby Way
could be that book.

I am very appreciative of your comments, but this isn't going to be that book.

I'd be willing to work on that next, though. Collect a list of topics (and I
will too) and I'll submit a proposal for the next book before this one is
even finished.


Hal