Article on the future of Python

[Dwight Hutto]

Well, we can all use american as a standard, or maybe you'd prefer to
borrow my Latin for Idiots handbook. But then again google has a
Universal Communicator going, so, does it matter?

 

[Chris Angelico]

Well, we can all use american as a standard, or maybe you'd prefer to
borrow my Latin for Idiots handbook. But then again google has a
Universal Communicator going, so, does it matter?

Never in the field of human discussion has there been so much reason
for so many to plonk so few.

ChrisA

 

[Dwight Hutto]

Well, we can all use american as a standard, or maybe you'd prefer to

Never in the field of human discussion has there been so much reason
for so many to plonk so few.

"Plonk" it if you want. Your homosexual ideologies have no effect on
me. Butt, back to the discussion, there are quite a few ways to
encode, as well as translate code.

Plonk it in your mouth, and let the nut hairs tickle your throat.

 

[Terry Reedy]

Py 3.3 succeeded to somehow kill unicode and it has
been transformed into an "American" product for
"American" users.

Python 3.3 is the first version that handles the full unicode character
set correctly on all platforms. If anything, it will make unicode more
alive and Python better suited for international applications.

 

[Mark Lawrence]

Ehh, I wouldn't be investing in Oracle, but that's more because I
think free RDBMSes like PostgreSQL outshine it. And this is even more
true of MS SQL Server - this last week I've been researching options
for moving work's services to the cloud, and SQL Server licenses cost
ridiculous amounts (per month or per hour); what do you get for that
money that you can't get from Postgres?

ChrisA

Maybe true but do free RDBMes have the sales and marketing budgets that
effectively shot down Ingres?

 

[Mark Lawrence]

Py 3.3 succeeded to somehow kill unicode and it has
been transformed into an "American" product for
"American" users.
jmf

Why do you keep repeating this rubbish when you've already been shot to
pieces? Don't you know when it's time to make sure that you're safely
strapped in and reach for and use the release button for the ejector
seat. Further for somebody who is apparently up in the high tech world,
why are you using a gmail account and hence sending garbage in more ways
than one to mailing lists like this?

 

[Mark Lawrence]

Never in the field of human discussion has there been so much reason
for so many to plonk so few.

ChrisA

I tried to make a play on that some days ago and failed dismally.
Thanks for putting me out of my misery

 

[Chris Angelico]

Further for somebody who is apparently up in the high tech world, why are
you using a gmail account and hence sending garbage in more ways than one to
mailing lists like this?

I use gmail too, largely because I prefer to keep mailing list posts
off my primary account.

ChrisA

 

[Dwight Hutto]

Why do you keep repeating this rubbish when you've already been shot to
pieces?

I still feel intact, so whatever little shards of pain you intended to
emit were lost on my ego.

Don't you know when it's time to make sure that you're safely

strapped in and reach for and use the release button for the ejector seat.

You ain't shot down shit, but your own reputation. Look at the full
conversation.

Further for somebody who is apparently up in the high tech world, why are
you using a gmail account and hence sending garbage in more ways than one to
mailing lists like this?

Um, using gmail instead of reinventing the wheel is now appropriate to you?

 

[Ramchandra Apte]

Incorrect.



IronPython in C#. Jython is written in Java. CLPython is written in Lisp.

Berp and HoPe are written in Haskell. Nuitka is written in C++. Skulpt is

written in Javascript. Vyper is written in Ocaml. PyPy is written in

RPython.



Some of those Python compilers are obsolete, unmaintained or

experimental. Others are not. But either way, it is certainly not true

that Python is written in C. One specific Python compiler happens to be

written in C, that is all.










Unless you are writing code that operates on the bare metal (device

drivers, operating system kernels) Python probably *could*, even if it

doesn't *yet*. PyPy now allows you to write real-time video processing

filters in pure Python:



http://morepypy.blogspot.com.au/2011/07/realtime-image-processing-in-python.html





And if performance was irrelevant, you could even write an operating

system in Python. A really slow, painful operating system, but still an

operating system.

That's what I plan to do.
But it will be converted to C/C++

 

[wxjmfauth]

Le mercredi 26 septembre 2012 09:23:47 UTC+2, Steven D'Aprano a écrit :Steven,

you are correct. But the price you pay for this is extremely
high. Now, practically all characters are affected, espacially
those *in* the Basic *** Multilingual*** Plane, these characters
used by non "American" user (No offense here, I just use this
word for ascii/latin-1).

I'm ready to be considered as an idiot, but I'm not blind.
As soon as I tested these characters, Py3.3 performs really
badly. It seems to me it is legitimate to consider, there
is a serious problem here.

- I'm speaking about "language characters", one should speak
about "scripting characters".
- Obviously affected are not only the "language characters",
but all characters, typographical signs, polytonic Greek,
up to mathematical "Bold italic sans serif, Latin, uppercase",
logically because all the "code points" are equivalent.

Many people are commmenting, I have the feeling, I'm the only
one who tested this. It is not necessary to dive in the Python
code, understanding all this "characters stuff" is enough.

And I am sorry, just saying "if you are not happy, switch
back to Python 2.7 or use Ruby" (you know where you can
read it) is in my mind not a correct answer. It only
reflect a "yes, there is a problem, but..."

Do not worry about me, I attempt to keep a neutral eye.
It is my point of view (and facts). I will not open a blog
with a "Python blah, blah, blah".

jmf

 

[Dwight Hutto]

Would you recommend Assembly, because C just becomea macros of
Assembly, or better yet machine language, which is line for line
procedural Assembly for the processor instruction set working in line
with the OS..

 

[Chris Angelico]

you are correct. But the price you pay for this is extremely
high. Now, practically all characters are affected, espacially
those *in* the Basic *** Multilingual*** Plane, these characters
used by non "American" user (No offense here, I just use this
word for ascii/latin-1).

I'm ready to be considered as an idiot, but I'm not blind.
As soon as I tested these characters, Py3.3 performs really
badly. It seems to me it is legitimate to consider, there
is a serious problem here.

We've been over this thread. The only reason you're counting 3.3 as
worse is because you're comparing against a narrow build of Python
3.2. Narrow builds are **BUGGY** and this needed to be resolved.

When you compare against a wide build, semantics of 3.2 and 3.3 are
identical, and then - and ONLY then - can you sanely compare
performance. And 3.3 stacks up much better.

ChrisA

 

[Hannu Krosing]

Maybe true but do free RDBMes have the sales and marketing budgets
that effectively shot down Ingres?

Nope. They don't have budget to shoot down Ingres.

Also, free RDBMs do not engage in dubious promise-and-dont-deliver-
then-ask-more-money sales policies that got Oracle kicked out of US
Government simplified buying processes.

You can get only so far using "sales". At some point you have to deliver.

Hannu

 

[wxjmfauth]

Le mercredi 26 septembre 2012 10:35:04 UTC+2, Mark Lawrence a écrit :

Why do you keep repeating this rubbish when you've already been shot to

pieces? Don't you know when it's time to make sure that you're safely

strapped in and reach for and use the release button for the ejector

seat. Further for somebody who is apparently up in the high tech world,

why are you using a gmail account and hence sending garbage in more ways

than one to mailing lists like this?



--

Cheers.



Mark Lawrence.

At least when the others are sending a msg containing
non asii characters. I see them correctly.

When you send such a text, I'm only able to see
something like this (your_string):
.... fourbiunicode.FrenchNames[c]
....
'LETTRE MINUSCULE LATINE TRÉMA'
"POINT D'INTERROGATION RENVERSÉ"
'FRACTION UN DEMI'

You have all the elements to reconstruct what is
happening. (Notice, I'm not a Unicode illiterate)

jmf

 

[wxjmfauth]

Le mercredi 26 septembre 2012 10:35:04 UTC+2, Mark Lawrence a écrit :

Why do you keep repeating this rubbish when you've already been shot to

pieces? Don't you know when it's time to make sure that you're safely

strapped in and reach for and use the release button for the ejector

seat. Further for somebody who is apparently up in the high tech world,

why are you using a gmail account and hence sending garbage in more ways

than one to mailing lists like this?



--

Cheers.



Mark Lawrence.

At least when the others are sending a msg containing
non asii characters. I see them correctly.

When you send such a text, I'm only able to see
something like this (your_string):
.... fourbiunicode.FrenchNames[c]
....
'LETTRE MINUSCULE LATINE TRÉMA'
"POINT D'INTERROGATION RENVERSÉ"
'FRACTION UN DEMI'

You have all the elements to reconstruct what is
happening. (Notice, I'm not a Unicode illiterate)

jmf

 

[wxjmfauth]

Le mercredi 26 septembre 2012 10:13:58 UTC+2, Terry Reedy a écrit :

Python 3.3 is the first version that handles the full unicode character

set correctly on all platforms. If anything, it will make unicode more

alive and Python better suited for international applications.

Remember the TeX discussion a few days ago?

You are always selling the same argument.
Py3.3 is the only computer language I'm aware of which
is maltreating Unicode in such a way.

After all, if replacing a Nabla operator in a string take
10 times more times in Py33 than in Python32, it takes 10
times more . There is nothing more to say.

I proposed to make some tests with the characters
used by the IMPRIMERIE NATINALE", I can now suggest
to make some tests with random texts exceprt form
the "Guide du typographe romand".

What? Never heard from these? Do not worry too
much. The corporates (software producers) and
the foundries know these documents.

Finally, all in all, it's no a suprise, end users
are sticking with these products.

I'm not complaining, only disappointed.


jmf
(Time to go back to TeX)

 

[wxjmfauth]

Le mercredi 26 septembre 2012 10:13:58 UTC+2, Terry Reedy a écrit :

Python 3.3 is the first version that handles the full unicode character

set correctly on all platforms. If anything, it will make unicode more

alive and Python better suited for international applications.

Remember the TeX discussion a few days ago?

You are always selling the same argument.
Py3.3 is the only computer language I'm aware of which
is maltreating Unicode in such a way.

After all, if replacing a Nabla operator in a string take
10 times more times in Py33 than in Python32, it takes 10
times more . There is nothing more to say.

I proposed to make some tests with the characters
used by the IMPRIMERIE NATINALE", I can now suggest
to make some tests with random texts exceprt form
the "Guide du typographe romand".

What? Never heard from these? Do not worry too
much. The corporates (software producers) and
the foundries know these documents.

Finally, all in all, it's no a suprise, end users
are sticking with these products.

I'm not complaining, only disappointed.


jmf
(Time to go back to TeX)

 

[Roy Smith]

You can get only so far using "sales". At some point you have to deliver.

But, by that time, the guy who closed the sale has already cashed his
bonus check, bought his new BMW, and moved on to another company.

And around that time, some poor schmuck of a dev manager is telling his
team what the sales guy sold. And that they have 12 weeks to design,
build, and deliver it.

 

[Mark Lawrence]

I'm ready to be considered as an idiot, but I'm not blind.

People here have seen enough of your writings to know that you're not an
idiot. I'm feeling far too polite right now to state what they actually
know about you.

As soon as I tested these characters, Py3.3 performs really
badly. It seems to me it is legitimate to consider, there
is a serious problem here.

Your tests (for the lack of a better term) have been repeatedly shot to
pieces, refuted, you've shown nothing at all to indicate that Python 3.3
performs really badly.

Many people are commmenting, I have the feeling, I'm the only
one who tested this. It is not necessary to dive in the Python
code, understanding all this "characters stuff" is enough.

Complete dross from a person who seems to know as much about the
combination of Python 3.3 and unicode as Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot
amongst others knew about human rights.