Awsome Python - chained exceptions

[Rick Johnson]

And yet it is still a perfect example of how a line of
code inside a 'try' block can indeed be offensive.

Oh nice try, but we are not fooled by your straw-man. My exact statement that provoked this whole thing was:

"""
Q1: How could a line in the "try" block ever be considered offensive? Because it throws an error? Are you serious?
"""

If you notice, the first sentence is rhetorical.

"How could a line in the "try" block ever be considered offensive?"

My suggestion of "offensive" does not imply ignorance on /my/ part, but it does not necessarily imply ignorance on your part either. Then, in the second sentence, I offer a possible answer to the first question in the form ofanother question (asked on your behalf):

"Because it throws and error?"

Then in my last sentence, i ask another question (in a sarcastic manner) that negates the answer you might have given,

"Are you serious?"

This negation means that /i/ do not find ANY line in a try block to be "offensive". In effect, you could reduce the paragraph to this:

"A line of code in the try block that throws an error is NOT offensive (tome)."

As you can see from this break-down, /i/ never suggested that ANY line in ANY block was "offensive", it was /you/ (by proxy) who suggested it. Now ain't that just a pickle! ;-).

This has nothing to do with exceptions, and everything to
do with societal practices and acceptable language.

But "offensive" is very subjective my friend!

I curse quite frequently (especially when i am frustrated). To me, words are merely expressions, and when i'm angry i will express myself accordingly.However, there are many people who cannot deal with the feelings and images that they experience when hearing certain words. And a good argument could be made for "limiting strong emotional expressions in the company of strangers" -- even /if/ for nothing more than "good manners".

It was for the later reason that i edited this word. And besides, i could toss out curse words all day if my only intent was to sensationalize the moment for the sake of a few rubber-neckers. Anybody can employ the curse for quick attention of fellow fools, however, /real/ intelligence is required to draw a witty abstract relationship between two superficially unrelated entities or ideas (especially when one entity is tangible and the other is intangible).

The fact that you edited it out of your quote shows just
how offensive the expression is.

So you present "a curse word that i edited" versus "a rhetorical question imade on your behalf", and you claim to have defeated me? Ha, classic straw-man!

May I ring your schoolbell?

Sure, but only if you use your head as the hammer.

 

[Rick Johnson]

And yet it is still a perfect example of how a line of
code inside a 'try' block can indeed be offensive.

Oh nice try, but we are not fooled by your straw-man. My exact statement that provoked this whole thing was:

"""
Q1: How could a line in the "try" block ever be considered offensive? Because it throws an error? Are you serious?
"""

If you notice, the first sentence is rhetorical.

"How could a line in the "try" block ever be considered offensive?"

My suggestion of "offensive" does not imply ignorance on /my/ part, but it does not necessarily imply ignorance on your part either. Then, in the second sentence, I offer a possible answer to the first question in the form ofanother question (asked on your behalf):

"Because it throws and error?"

Then in my last sentence, i ask another question (in a sarcastic manner) that negates the answer you might have given,

"Are you serious?"

This negation means that /i/ do not find ANY line in a try block to be "offensive". In effect, you could reduce the paragraph to this:

"A line of code in the try block that throws an error is NOT offensive (tome)."

As you can see from this break-down, /i/ never suggested that ANY line in ANY block was "offensive", it was /you/ (by proxy) who suggested it. Now ain't that just a pickle! ;-).

This has nothing to do with exceptions, and everything to
do with societal practices and acceptable language.

But "offensive" is very subjective my friend!

I curse quite frequently (especially when i am frustrated). To me, words are merely expressions, and when i'm angry i will express myself accordingly.However, there are many people who cannot deal with the feelings and images that they experience when hearing certain words. And a good argument could be made for "limiting strong emotional expressions in the company of strangers" -- even /if/ for nothing more than "good manners".

It was for the later reason that i edited this word. And besides, i could toss out curse words all day if my only intent was to sensationalize the moment for the sake of a few rubber-neckers. Anybody can employ the curse for quick attention of fellow fools, however, /real/ intelligence is required to draw a witty abstract relationship between two superficially unrelated entities or ideas (especially when one entity is tangible and the other is intangible).

The fact that you edited it out of your quote shows just
how offensive the expression is.

So you present "a curse word that i edited" versus "a rhetorical question imade on your behalf", and you claim to have defeated me? Ha, classic straw-man!

May I ring your schoolbell?

Sure, but only if you use your head as the hammer.

 

[Ulrich Eckhardt]

Am 15.02.2013 08:51, schrieb Rick Johnson:

"How could a line in the "try" block ever be considered offensive?"

My suggestion of "offensive" does not imply ignorance on /my/ part[...]

Well, it seems to imply that you are not aware of the subtle difference
between "offending" and "offensive". The irony on that was probably lost
in my last posting, since you are still repeating this mistake.

Now, concerning the rest, you are relying on too many implications that
others should draw from what you wrote that are not clear. This doesn't
help you getting across what you want to say.

Further, you wrote "Which (by showing the offensive line) is quite clear
to me.", i.e. that there can be "offensive" lines, then you go on to
"/i/ never suggested that ANY line in ANY block was "offensive"". Those
two statements just don't fit together, see for yourself which of them
you want to clarify or not, but please stop blaming others for your slips!

You're welcome.

Uli

 

[Serhiy Storchaka]

Here is one example of using raise to re-raise an exception you have just
caught:

import errno
paths = ["here", "there", "somewhere else"]
for location in paths:
filename = os.path.join(location, "prefs.ini")
try:
f = open(filename)
except IOError as e:
if e.errno != errno.ENOENT: # File not found.
raise

In Python 3.3:

try:
f = open(filename)
except FileNotFound:
pass

But not all errnos have special OSError subclasses.

 

[alex23]

[Ranting nonsense that's appearing in duplicate on usenet]

Any chance you can stop sending to both comp.lang.python _and_ the
python-list, given the former is a mirror of the later?

 

[Dave Angel]

[Ranting nonsense that's appearing in duplicate on usenet]

Any chance you can stop sending to both comp.lang.python _and_ the
python-list, given the former is a mirror of the later?

It might be easier to just tell everyone not to use GoogleGroups. I
think it's them that double-up the messages. The way I control it on my
end is with a rule that discards all emails addressed to
(e-mail address removed)

That way I only see the other copy. There are a few other people who
double-post, but this gets rid of the vast majority.

 

[Rick Johnson]

Any chance you can stop sending to both comp.lang.python _and_ the
python-list, given the former is a mirror of the later?

I apologize for this doubling of my messages and i can assure you i don't do this intentionally. Proper netiquette is very important to me. These double posts are another unfortunate side-effect of using the buggy Google Groups web-face to read/write Usenet. I've sent feedback to the Google Groups long ago and have yet to see any changes or even get any replys.

You know, i try to support Google because (for the most part) they are the only option to M$ and they "give-back". However, sustaining the last few years of them cramming (this and other) buggy software down my throat is starting to wear on my patience.

Not only does this software post the same message twice, it also inserts superfluous newlines in quoted text, does not support mono-spaced fonts _anymore_, and wraps lines at well over 150 chars! The old groups interface was simple, had mono-spaced font, and wrapped lines at reasonable lengths. I ama simple kinda guy, and so i really liked the old group interface. :-(

Alex, if you (or anyone else) would be kind enough to recommend an alternative to this gawd awful software, i'm all ears. My expectations at minimum are:

* I only like to read the list from the web, i just hate
getting thousands of emails in my inbox.

* I MUST have mono-spaced font (at least as an option).

That's about it. Anything else is just icing really.

PS: To all of you that use the buggy GoogleGroups, please send them feedback detailing all of these bugs (and any more that you have experienced!)

 

[Terry Reedy]

if you (or anyone else) would be kind enough to recommend an
alternative to this gawd awful software [google groups],

? i'm all ears. My expectations at minimum are:

For at least the 10th time, there is little to no excuse for reading and
writing python-list thru google-groups. The news.gmane.org mirror has
multiple interfaces:
'''
Information about gmane.comp.python.general
The archive for this list can be read the following ways:

On the web, using frames and threads.
On the web, using a blog-like, flat interface.
Using an NNTP newsreader.
RSS feeds:
All messages from the list, with excerpted texts.
Topics from the list, with excerpted texts.
All messages from the list, with complete texts.
Topics from the list, with complete texts.
'''

* I only like to read the list from the web, i just hate getting
thousands of emails in my inbox.

A newsreader interface does the same. That is what I use.

* I MUST have mono-spaced font (at least as an option).

That is what I have with Thunderbird. I may have told it once to use
monospace for newsgroups. You might be able to do the same with a web
browser.

 

[Rick Johnson]

For at least the 10th time, there is little to no excuse for reading and
writing python-list thru google-groups. The news.gmane.org mirror has
multiple interfaces:

[Sent from gmane.comp.python.general]

Yes you have mentioned this before and for some reason i failed to follow your
advice. I must have fallen into the trap of familiarity. In any event, if this
message works i shall use gmane from now on. Thanks Terry!

 

[Kwpolska]

For at least the 10th time, there is little to no excuse for reading and
writing python-list thru google-groups. The news.gmane.org mirror has
multiple interfaces:

[Sent from gmane.comp.python.general]

Yes you have mentioned this before and for some reason i failed to follow your
advice. I must have fallen into the trap of familiarity. In any event, if this
message works i shall use gmane from now on. Thanks Terry!

Or something even better: use the Mailman mailing list,
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list (mirrored to
Usenet).

 

[rurpy]

if you (or anyone else) would be kind enough to recommend an
alternative to this gawd awful software [google groups],

? i'm all ears. My expectations at minimum are:

For at least the 10th time, there is little to no excuse for reading and
writing python-list thru google-groups. The news.gmane.org mirror has
multiple interfaces:

And for at least the 11th time, you are wrong. There are reasons
(not applicable to everyone but applicable to many) for using
Google Groups, among others it is more accessible and easier to
use for many than a news reader with Gmane.

That you don't like aspects of the posts produced by GG is fine
(I don't either) but it does not justify posting BS claims -- if
you want people to use Gmane because *you* don't like reading GG
posts then say so but don't claim that doing so is just as easy
as GG -- it is not.

There are ways of mitigating some of the worst characteristics of
GG posts, see

http://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython

 

[Rick Johnson]

For at least the 10th time [...]

And for at least the 11th time, you are wrong. There are reasons
(not applicable to everyone but applicable to many) for using
Google Groups, among others it is more accessible and easier to
use for many than a news reader with Gmane.

I will admit that GG's is easier in this respect.

However, you /can/ read gmane /without/ a newsreader using the "frames and
threads" or "flat (blog-like)" web-interface. Although, there are a few issues
that are annoying me:

1. When viewing in the "flat" interface style, the text of the messages is so
small i need to squint whilst reading. Of course i can zoom my web browser,
however, then i get a horizontal scroll bar and some of the post text is
unreachable without scrolling (I really hate horizontal scroll bars!). Not to
mention that i will need to adjust the zoom level back to normal when leaving
the site.

2. When positing a new message i must enter my email address and username each
time. The forms are auto-filled for replys but not for new messages. Go figure!

3. There is no method to sort the topics by either: "last reply first" or "date
of thread composition". This is probably more suited to a personal newsreader
though.

4. (In the blog style interface) the menu of threads uses a font with
insufficient vertical spacing and everything becomes so jammed together that it
is completely unreadable. I will try to change my browsers' font and see if that
solves the issue; although i am quite fond of my current settings!

There are ways of mitigating some of the worst characteristics of
GG posts, see

http://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython

Thanks for this link!

 

[Terry Reedy]

2. When positing a new message i must enter my email address and username each
time. The forms are auto-filled for replys but not for new messages. Go figure!

Using the newsreader interface, I get 1 email message per list to verify
the email address. After that, it is as if I were subscribed. (Some
mirrored email lists require a subscription at their site, but most
python.org lists seems not to.) And, of course, Thunderbird fills in
data for both new messages and replies. I do not know why it would be
different through the web interface.

3. There is no method to sort the topics by either: "last reply first" or "date
of thread composition". This is probably more suited to a personal newsreader
though.

The monthly archives, which include the current month,
can be accessed by thread, subject, author, or date.
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/

 

[alex23]

I apologize for this doubling of my messages and i can assure you i
don't do this intentionally. Proper netiquette is very important to me.
These double posts are another unfortunate side-effect of using the
buggy Google Groups web-face to read/write Usenet. I've sent feedback
to the Google Groups long ago and have yet to see any changes or even
get any replys.

Weird, I'm using GG too and not seeing any doubling of my messages. I
have reverted to using the old interface, though, so it might be a
side-effect of the new version they're hyping, which does seem to have
been designed by Satan himself (the way they've separated thread view
from article view is a huge WTF). I've sent a heap of feedback to them
as well with no response. Google don't really seem to want to hype
Usenet as anything other than a target for blogspot spam, it appears.

 

[rurpy]

[...]
Weird, I'm using GG too and not seeing any doubling of my messages. I
have reverted to using the old interface, though, so it might be a
side-effect of the new version they're hyping, which does seem to have
been designed by Satan himself (the way they've separated thread view
from article view is a huge WTF). I've sent a heap of feedback to them
as well with no response. Google don't really seem to want to hype
Usenet as anything other than a target for blogspot spam, it appears.

In their new interface, GG presents a checkbox for cc: addresses in
the post being replied to. Unchecking the "cc: (e-mail address removed)"
box will prevent the double posts.

 

[rusi]

Weird, I'm using GG too and not seeing any doubling of my messages. I
have reverted to using the old interface, though, so it might be a
side-effect of the new version they're hyping, which does seem to have
been designed by Satan himself (the way they've separated thread view
from article view is a huge WTF). I've sent a heap of feedback to them
as well with no response. Google don't really seem to want to hype
Usenet as anything other than a target for blogspot spam, it appears.

How do you "revert to old interface"?
So far I have managed to keep to the old by
- logging out of gmail
- reload GG -- now the choice to revert should appear

It seems everyone does not get that option

 

[alex23]

How do you "revert to old interface"?
So far I have managed to keep to the old by
- logging out of gmail
- reload GG -- now the choice to revert should appear

It seems everyone does not get that option

In an amazing piece of software engineering, you need to accept the
new interface _before_ the revert to old interface option appears.

I have to do this at irregular intervals, not entirely sure what
triggers its decision to foist the new crap onto me. Now I mostly use
the feedback box to vent my spleen

 

[Steven D'Aprano]

In an amazing piece of software engineering, you need to accept the
new interface _before_ the revert to old interface option appears.

I have to do this at irregular intervals, not entirely sure what
triggers its decision to foist the new crap onto me. Now I mostly use
the feedback box to vent my spleen

You know, you could always *stop* using their crap. You can easily subscribe
to this as a mailing list. It will work anywhere you have email, in your
familiar mail client.

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

If access on any computer with an internet connection is important to you,
the mailing list works fine with Gmail, Hotmail or Yahoo mail.

Or if your ISP provides Usenet access, you can use a News client to read it
via comp.lang.python, or gmane.comp.python.general. If you don't have a
News client, there are various free ones available, starting with
Thunderbird.

 

[Rotwang]

[...alternatives to Google...]

Or if your ISP provides Usenet access, you can use a News client to read it
via comp.lang.python, or gmane.comp.python.general.

And if it doesn't, you can get free Usenet access that includes most of
the text-only groups (including c.l.p) from eternal-september.org.

http://www.eternal-september.org/

 

[rurpy]

[...]
Or if your ISP provides Usenet access, you can use a News client to read it
via comp.lang.python, or gmane.comp.python.general. If you don't have a
News client, there are various free ones available, starting with
Thunderbird.

I think very few ISPs provide Usenet access these days.
All the local ISPs in my area dropped Usenet years ago.
Which leaves most people in the position of paying for
Usenet access or finding a free Usenet server. And there
is not much motivation to do either since Usenet itself
seems headed towards extinction (or as close as it gets
in an era of infinite internet memory.)