T
Tom Copeland
Cool, thanks, feedback on RubyForge is always welcome...
Yours,
Tom
Cool, thanks, feedback on RubyForge is always welcome...
Yours,
Tom
Z
Zach Dennis
Tom said:
Tom,
How difficult would it be to give RubyForge a new look? I'm not asking
that you do this, but perhaps some kind soul good donate some time to
giving Rubyforge a crisper look. I am not asking for a whole redesign,
but to replace images, perhaps change some css stuff and add some
borders/images in certain places.
Perhaps people could make mockups and we could submit them for
approval/vote, and go that route?
Just thinking outloud here,
Zach
T
Tom Copeland
FWIW, there's a new theme available now; if you log in and go to "My
Page" and go "Account Maintenance", there's a dropdown box to select a
new theme. Just pick the GForge theme and click ok and then click
around a bit...
The difficult thing, I think, about a mockup is that it might be hard to
translate onto the actual GForge HTML stuff. So someone could come up
with a really nice look, but I might have no idea how to make GForge
actually implement that look.
But sure, suggestions or improvements to the stylesheet or anything else
would be welcome.
Right on, good stuff!
Yours,
Tom
T
trans. (T. Onoma)
On Tuesday 28 December 2004 04:51 pm, Tom Copeland wrote:
| But sure, suggestions or improvements to the stylesheet or anything else
| would be welcome.
Of course, it probably wouldn't hurt if RubyForge was written in Ruby rather
than Python (though I realize that is a large project).
T.
| But sure, suggestions or improvements to the stylesheet or anything else
| would be welcome.
Of course, it probably wouldn't hurt if RubyForge was written in Ruby rather
than Python (though I realize that is a large project).
T.
T
Tom Copeland
It's worse than that - it's in PHP! Argh!
Yours,
Tom
G
gabriele renzi
Tom Copeland ha scritto:
it is always nice to give some, cause the response is always great
Anyway, I think that Support/Links is somewhat too crowded and thus
takes back some of the visibility of all the links.
I think that instead of:
Report a Ruby Bug
Read more about Ruby (Ja)/(En)
Ruby Application Archive (RAA)
Programming Ruby
View Ruby documentation
RubyForge Support
RubyForge RSS Feeds
we could have just 5 items, removing "read more.." and "programming
ruby..", cause those are things supposed to appear on the 'wiew
documentation' page.
Just my two cents
it is always nice to give some, cause the response is always great
Anyway, I think that Support/Links is somewhat too crowded and thus
takes back some of the visibility of all the links.
I think that instead of:
Report a Ruby Bug
Read more about Ruby (Ja)/(En)
Ruby Application Archive (RAA)
Programming Ruby
View Ruby documentation
RubyForge Support
RubyForge RSS Feeds
we could have just 5 items, removing "read more.." and "programming
ruby..", cause those are things supposed to appear on the 'wiew
documentation' page.
Just my two cents
T
Tom Copeland
it is always nice to give some, cause the response is always great
Anyway, I think that Support/Links is somewhat too crowded and thus
takes back some of the visibility of all the links.
I think that instead of:
Report a Ruby Bug
Read more about Ruby (Ja)/(En)
Ruby Application Archive (RAA)
Programming Ruby
View Ruby documentation
RubyForge Support
RubyForge RSS Feeds
we could have just 5 items, removing "read more.." and "programming
ruby..", cause those are things supposed to appear on the 'wiew
documentation' page.
Sounds good, done!
Yours,
tom
T
Thursday
Alexander said:actually i find it ironic that u find irony in something
that is so obviously non ironic!
in this case hyping a language is the evil of which is spoken
and the email from neil the appropriate counter action.
regards
Alex
This thread is full of irony--if it can be called that--when we seethe definition of the word 'hype'.
For most, 'hype' means "excessive publicity", "exaggerated/extravagant
claims" or "deliberately misleading".
By contrast, we were speaking of making a ruby more popular by taking
specific steps that don't involve hype: (i) having a more
formal/documented release process (ii) a bug tracking system and (iii)
having documentation on the primary website instead of relying on 3rd
parties. And (ii) is already done--hosted on Rubyforge.
Your phrase 'the evil of which is spoken' can be viewed by some as
'exaggerated/extravagant claims', which fits the definition of 'hype' so
there's irony for ya.
Let us leave the 'hyping' to others. I'm sure there are plenty of
folks who can easily point to more irony (morony) or even stupidity in
my response. But I hope the energy will be channelled into making (i)
and (iii) happen instead.
J
Josef 'Jupp' Schugt
Thursday said:
I think that the following agenda will be better:
1. DGDATAT
2. DGDATAT
3. DGDATAT
DGDATAT: Do good deeds and talk about them.
By that I mean that the best way of making popular *any* programming
language is not meeting some formal requirements on how the language is
developed and documented but rather by writing good "everybody wants to
have" software and libraries in Ruby and talk about them whenever you
see the slightest chance someone may be interested in them.
When trying to talk people into the use of Ruby I often face responses
like these:
"Is there a Ruby library to do X?"
"Has someone written a Ruby program to do Y?"
Josef 'Jupp' Schugt
D
darren
You have a point. Comments from Slashdot posters is what motivated me to look
at Ruby. The comments I saw were something like, "if you like Python, you
will love Ruby". I hear/see that alot. The key point is that the comments
were not made in threads where Ruby was the topic. They were just thrown in
by Ruby enthusiasts.
I agree with many of the comments about the website, too. In particular,
Miles' comments quite accurately paralleled my experience.
darren
at Ruby. The comments I saw were something like, "if you like Python, you
will love Ruby". I hear/see that alot. The key point is that the comments
were not made in threads where Ruby was the topic. They were just thrown in
by Ruby enthusiasts.
I agree with many of the comments about the website, too. In particular,
Miles' comments quite accurately paralleled my experience.
darren
G
gabriele renzi
Tom Copeland ha scritto:
definitely, you rock
definitely, you rock
T
trans. (T. Onoma)
| > I think Ruby's popularity is growing, but I can't help but wonder
| > what we can do to accelerate its adoption.
| >
| > 1. a more formal release process
| >
| > 2. a bug tracking system where we can report and view bugs
| >
| > 3. last but not least, online docs on Ruby's primary website
|
| I think that the following agenda will be better:
|
| 1. DGDATAT
| 2. DGDATAT
| 3. DGDATAT
|
| DGDATAT: Do good deeds and talk about them.
I think that kind of goes without saying though. But take the point about the
Documents page. It is really quite disappointing to see things like that.
this is all it is:
# Downloadable documents
* Ruby 1.4.6 Reference Manual
* English reference manual for Ruby 1.6 is not yet prepared. See Ruby 1.6
Library reference online.
* Ruby-doc.org accumulates Ruby-related documents widely.
* Recently, stdlib-doc project accumulates RDoc-based documents for Ruby
standard libraries widely.
Last update on March 21, 2004 15:37
«Ruby CVS Repository Guide Top Conferences»
T.
| > what we can do to accelerate its adoption.
| >
| > 1. a more formal release process
| >
| > 2. a bug tracking system where we can report and view bugs
| >
| > 3. last but not least, online docs on Ruby's primary website
|
| I think that the following agenda will be better:
|
| 1. DGDATAT
| 2. DGDATAT
| 3. DGDATAT
|
| DGDATAT: Do good deeds and talk about them.
I think that kind of goes without saying though. But take the point about the
Documents page. It is really quite disappointing to see things like that.
this is all it is:
# Downloadable documents
* Ruby 1.4.6 Reference Manual
* English reference manual for Ruby 1.6 is not yet prepared. See Ruby 1.6
Library reference online.
* Ruby-doc.org accumulates Ruby-related documents widely.
* Recently, stdlib-doc project accumulates RDoc-based documents for Ruby
standard libraries widely.
Last update on March 21, 2004 15:37
«Ruby CVS Repository Guide Top Conferences»
T.
N
Nicholas Van Weerdenburg
I'd like to see http://www.ruby-lang.org/en cleaned up to immediately
convey to new users whether they want to investigate more or not. I
had business cards once described as needing to impress in the 1/2
second someone looks at it before tossing it in the garbage. A
web-site, I think, needs to follow the same principles.
In that vain, I'd like to see:
1. focus on introduction, tutorials, and documentation- having news
dominate the body is not ideal- this is where you capture new people,
and the news is meaningless to most of them.
2. a marketing blurb right at the top that's more detailed. It should
give a sense of what Ruby is, and why I'd be in interested in going
further into it. Good marketing is concise communication, not mindless
hype, and, there is nothing wrong about being excited about a great
thing. "The power and beauty of Smalltalk mixed with the hard-nosed
practicality of Perl, Ruby is an ultra-productive Smalltalk and Perl
inspired dynamic programming language that closes the gap between
thought and code. Almost as important, Ruby makes programming fun
again."
3. a "Get Started in 10 Minutes Tutorial Link". A canonical tutorial
aka Python would be nice. Ideally, there is a 10 minute one and a 4
hour one.
4. a prominent "Download Now" link at the top.
The python site was recently cleaned up, and while still butt-ugly, it
is nicely focused.
Nick
convey to new users whether they want to investigate more or not. I
had business cards once described as needing to impress in the 1/2
second someone looks at it before tossing it in the garbage. A
web-site, I think, needs to follow the same principles.
In that vain, I'd like to see:
1. focus on introduction, tutorials, and documentation- having news
dominate the body is not ideal- this is where you capture new people,
and the news is meaningless to most of them.
2. a marketing blurb right at the top that's more detailed. It should
give a sense of what Ruby is, and why I'd be in interested in going
further into it. Good marketing is concise communication, not mindless
hype, and, there is nothing wrong about being excited about a great
thing. "The power and beauty of Smalltalk mixed with the hard-nosed
practicality of Perl, Ruby is an ultra-productive Smalltalk and Perl
inspired dynamic programming language that closes the gap between
thought and code. Almost as important, Ruby makes programming fun
again."
3. a "Get Started in 10 Minutes Tutorial Link". A canonical tutorial
aka Python would be nice. Ideally, there is a 10 minute one and a 4
hour one.
4. a prominent "Download Now" link at the top.
The python site was recently cleaned up, and while still butt-ugly, it
is nicely focused.
Nick
D
darren
<disclaimer>
You know, when it comes to Ruby, I'm not even past "Go" yet. I've fiddled
with a tutorial for awhile, bought a book and posted a question on the
mailing list. That's the extent of my Ruby experience. So, I really hate to
keep throwing my 2 cents into this thread. But, I kind of think that my
current lack of knowledge of Ruby gives me a fresh perspective on this topic.
</disclaimer>
Having said all of that, I think you are right on the money with your
suggestions. I might add to your list a couple of more things. First,
consider that most people coming to the Ruby site are probably currently
using another language and are curious about Ruby. So, be sure to put
something on there that appeals to them. A couple of suggestions would be:
1. Put a few links that target specific people. For example, make it easy
for them to find information on how Ruby compares to their current language.
Make a link, "How Ruby compares to: Smalltalk, Python, C, C++", where
Smalltalk, Python, C and C++ are separate links to brief examples of code
snippets that illustrate how you would do a loop (or something) in that
language and in Ruby.
2. Explain the difference between Python's object.module.method() syntax and
the "object message" syntax.
3. Point out what iterators are. I haven't tried them in Ruby yet. But, in
Small talk, iterating through a dictionary is as easy as:
dictionary keysAndValuesDo: [ :key :value | do something with the key and
value ]. And, be sure to let them know that what they may call a dictionary
in their language is called a hash in Ruby.
4. Finally, answer some of the questions that I asked about philosophy. In a
very prominent way on the home page, put a link or a short paragraph titled,
"Why choose Ruby?" If I'm a programmer in another language, tell me why I
would be happier using Ruby.
darren
You know, when it comes to Ruby, I'm not even past "Go" yet. I've fiddled
with a tutorial for awhile, bought a book and posted a question on the
mailing list. That's the extent of my Ruby experience. So, I really hate to
keep throwing my 2 cents into this thread. But, I kind of think that my
current lack of knowledge of Ruby gives me a fresh perspective on this topic.
</disclaimer>
Having said all of that, I think you are right on the money with your
suggestions. I might add to your list a couple of more things. First,
consider that most people coming to the Ruby site are probably currently
using another language and are curious about Ruby. So, be sure to put
something on there that appeals to them. A couple of suggestions would be:
1. Put a few links that target specific people. For example, make it easy
for them to find information on how Ruby compares to their current language.
Make a link, "How Ruby compares to: Smalltalk, Python, C, C++", where
Smalltalk, Python, C and C++ are separate links to brief examples of code
snippets that illustrate how you would do a loop (or something) in that
language and in Ruby.
2. Explain the difference between Python's object.module.method() syntax and
the "object message" syntax.
3. Point out what iterators are. I haven't tried them in Ruby yet. But, in
Small talk, iterating through a dictionary is as easy as:
dictionary keysAndValuesDo: [ :key :value | do something with the key and
value ]. And, be sure to let them know that what they may call a dictionary
in their language is called a hash in Ruby.
4. Finally, answer some of the questions that I asked about philosophy. In a
very prominent way on the home page, put a link or a short paragraph titled,
"Why choose Ruby?" If I'm a programmer in another language, tell me why I
would be happier using Ruby.
darren
J
James Britt
darren said:
Rather than comparisons to other languages, it would be better to offer
specific information on accomplishing various practical tasks. Perhaps
within a task-oriented section one could offer a comparison with another
language as a way of explaining A Ruby Way of doing something in terms a
Ruby newcomer might better understand, but what wins people over is the
specific knowledge that a tool will help them accomplish some
well-defined goal.
Point people to web development kits, database bindings, text-processing
libraries, XML tools, unit testing frameworks, distributed programming
code, and so on.
Language comparisons tend to get too abstract for most people, and are
often a source of goofy flame wars, as it seems nobody understands The
Other Language well enough to get it Just Right.
The site should be task-oriented, and unless the visitor is a language
buff or dilettante, the Ruby <-> #{language} stuff is academic.
A language attracts people looking to do something their current
language does not do well, if at all.
James
J
Jonas Galvez
Thursday said:
Hi all, I'm new to this list. I'm a long time (well, 1-2 years)
Python programmer and advocate, but I've gotta say I'm really sold
on Ruby now. What triggered my interest was Ruby on Rails.
I've always thought of Ruby as a language too close to Python and
not particularly intriguing enough to be worth my time. But now I
see things quite differently. I'm not the kind of programmer that
uses only one language, so I can see myself using both Python and
Ruby, mostly interchangeable, but Ruby on Rails seems to be
definitely a wiser choice for most of my web projects now.
One thing that has always kept me away from Ruby was its highly
evident Perlish syntax. I like the conservative aspect of Python's
syntax very much, and it was difficult for me to accept some of
the freedoms that Ruby gives. But I'm slowing changing my mind.
Surely inline regexes are heathenish but they are very practical
and Ruby makes them readable enough. I now think Ruby is able to
mantain the code harmony (I like this term) and clarity while
offering all these nice syntactic sugars.
So, yeah, I'm sold. I've recently registered the domain ruby.com.br,
where I plan to publish a few tutorials in Brazilian Portuguese, and
maybe occasionally in English too.
Good to be a part of this growing community.
M
Mark Bennett
M
Mark Bennett
I just learned Python a few months ago when I started a new job. One
of my coworkers recommended the excellent Dive Into Python book.
(http://www.diveintopython.org) It's good because it's relatively
short, and directed towards someone who has programmed before. It also
focuses on teach by giving examples of things you do in your code on a
daily basis, so I've found it to be a good resource even now that I
consider myself fairly comfortable with Python.
Perhaps something like this would be good for Ruby? I've looked at The
Pragmatic Programmers Guide, and while I think it's very useful, when I
first started learning Ruby I often found it got too bogged down in
it's examples and technical digressions to really kick-start my Ruby
experience.
Does anyone else think it would be useful to have a short (~50 page
max) Ruby introduction, focused on showing someone with a programming
background how to do all the normal OO tasks?
of my coworkers recommended the excellent Dive Into Python book.
(http://www.diveintopython.org) It's good because it's relatively
short, and directed towards someone who has programmed before. It also
focuses on teach by giving examples of things you do in your code on a
daily basis, so I've found it to be a good resource even now that I
consider myself fairly comfortable with Python.
Perhaps something like this would be good for Ruby? I've looked at The
Pragmatic Programmers Guide, and while I think it's very useful, when I
first started learning Ruby I often found it got too bogged down in
it's examples and technical digressions to really kick-start my Ruby
experience.
Does anyone else think it would be useful to have a short (~50 page
max) Ruby introduction, focused on showing someone with a programming
background how to do all the normal OO tasks?
A
Aquila
Mark said:
Certainly! I have been looking for such an introduction when I first tried
Ruby and I really missed it...
A small introduction of the different concepts (that differ from other
languages) is very usefull, that's the one reference I look at when tasting
new programming languages.
M
Martin DeMello
Mark Bennett said:
Another great beginning-to-intermediate level book is Practical Common
Lisp (http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/). We could definitely take some
inspiration from that.
martin