c++0x pods and constructors

[James Kanze]

[...]
I don't follow you. One of the reasons (not the only one)
C++ continues to be important is because it leaves
significant liberty to the implementation. It can be
implemented on just about every platform.
That is not important.

The fact that C++ can be implemented on just about every
platform is important to the majority of the committee.
Some people don't care about anything but Windows, but
they're far from a majority.

"Oopsies" then, I must be autistic: I thought the world
revolved around Windows! I mean, it's EVERYwhere: desktop,
server, mobile, embedded. What more is there? Is anything more
ubiquitous than Windows? Why bother with anything else? Learn
one thing and be done with it, right? So what if every
stoplight has QNX controlling it? Soon it will be Windows
Embedded.

Windows is inappropriate for most applications, and most uses.
Most embedded systems require real-time behavior, for example,
which Windows doesn't provide. Most mainframes require a lot of
functionality that Windows doesn't provide (and run on platforms
that Windows doesn't support). Most large scale servers require
more reliability and scalability than Windows provides.

Windows is far from ubiquitous. It's not even the most
wide-spread OS. (VxWorks probably takes that prize.)

[...]

In looking to forget it's lineage but still purporting
something like that.

Bullshit. I never forgot C++'s lineage.

You can't have it both ways. And when is this next standard
going to be real anyway?

Maybe never, the way things are going. Certainly not in the
next few years.

It needs to happen EVERY year or "yer (C++) outta here!".
IMHO, of course.

I agree that it needs to happen, and that the fact that it isn't
happening is seriously hurting C++. But that doesn't change the
fact that at present, it isn't happening, at least not too
quickly.

[...]

I have been following your posts that are in a topic that I
find interesting and you seem to have a pattern. That pattern
makes me think that you are "defender of C++" or "guaranteeing
your job". ?

You loose. I'm a professional, trying to get a job done. With
tools that I stand a chance of seeing.

 

[dragan]

[...]
I don't follow you. One of the reasons (not the only one)
C++ continues to be important is because it leaves
significant liberty to the implementation. It can be
implemented on just about every platform.
That is not important.
The fact that C++ can be implemented on just about every
platform is important to the majority of the committee.
Some people don't care about anything but Windows, but
they're far from a majority.

"Oopsies" then, I must be autistic: I thought the world
revolved around Windows! I mean, it's EVERYwhere: desktop,
server, mobile, embedded. What more is there? Is anything more
ubiquitous than Windows? Why bother with anything else? Learn
one thing and be done with it, right? So what if every
stoplight has QNX controlling it? Soon it will be Windows
Embedded.

Windows is inappropriate for most applications, and most uses.
Most embedded systems require real-time behavior, for example,
which Windows doesn't provide.

Soon it will of course and now there are 3rd parties giving that.

Most mainframes

There are still some of those? Go figure.

require a lot of
functionality that Windows doesn't provide (and run on platforms
that Windows doesn't support).

Just a matter of time.

Most large scale servers require
more reliability and scalability than Windows provides.

Just a matter of time.

Windows is far from ubiquitous.

I beg to differ: life beyond me/us will be all "Windows". It is inevitable.

It's not even the most
wide-spread OS. (VxWorks probably takes that prize.)

Windows has won. There soon will be nothing else. Anyone chasing anything
else is a fool.

[...]

In looking to forget it's lineage but still purporting
something like that.

Bullshit. I never forgot C++'s lineage.

I didn't say "you", I said "C++". C++ is mortaly wounded and maybe you along
with it. (Or maybe someone may want their money back!).

Maybe never, the way things are going. Certainly not in the
next few years.

So, dead: C++ is dead. You said it, so let it be written.

I agree that it needs to happen, and that the fact that it isn't
happening is seriously hurting C++. But that doesn't change the
fact that at present, it isn't happening, at least not too
quickly.

Too late: it's dead (not that it should have lived forever). Reality bytes.
(At best).

[...]

I have been following your posts that are in a topic that I
find interesting and you seem to have a pattern. That pattern
makes me think that you are "defender of C++" or "guaranteeing
your job". ?

You loose. I'm a professional, trying to get a job done. With
tools that I stand a chance of seeing.

OK. I'm not dissing the Unions. I don't want any part of that. Though I want
you "in the trenches" to know that I've been there.

 

[James Kanze]

Soon it will of course and now there are 3rd parties giving
that.

Been hearing that for quite some years now. The basic structure
of Windows (and Unix, for the most part) doesn't really lend
itself to hard real-time; it's not something you can add on top.

There are still some of those? Go figure.

A lot of applications need a bit more than a PC. Companies are
still using computers to manage large sets of data.

Just a matter of time.

Like, a million years...

Actually, I'd say that the tendancy is going in the opposite
direction. Most IT organizations are realizing that one size
doesn't fit all, and that you don't necessarily want the same
system handling your critical data as you do on the desktop.

Just a matter of time.

Reliability improves with time, that's certain, and modern
Windows is really pretty stable (which wasn't the case with NT,
for example). But the other systems are aging as well. Linux
is becoming stable---it's already stable enough for a lot of
applications---and it scales a lot better than Windows.

I beg to differ: life beyond me/us will be all "Windows". It
is inevitable.

Obviously, you don't live in the real world, or at least, you're
not aware of what's going on around you.

Windows has won. There soon will be nothing else. Anyone
chasing anything else is a fool.

Anyone restricting his choices to just Windows is an amateur,
who doesn't understand the real world.

[...]

You said: C++ is dead.
When did I ever say that? Just the contrary, C++ is a lot
more alive than many people want.
In looking to forget it's lineage but still purporting
something like that.

Bullshit. I never forgot C++'s lineage.

I didn't say "you", I said "C++". C++ is mortaly wounded and
maybe you along with it. (Or maybe someone may want their
money back!).

Well, I know a lot more than just C++. And I agree that C++ is
"wounded", in some ways. But not morally. If for no other
reason than the fact that for most applications, there's really
no competitor---about the only possible one would be Ada 95, and
that doesn't seem to have caught on.

 

[dragan]

Been hearing that for quite some years now. The basic structure
of Windows (and Unix, for the most part) doesn't really lend
itself to hard real-time; it's not something you can add on top.



A lot of applications need a bit more than a PC. Companies are
still using computers to manage large sets of data.



Like, a million years...

No, like right now Mr. Union Man who doesn't no his ass from a hole in the
ground.

Actually, I'd say that the tendancy is going in the opposite
direction.

Of course you would, but are in denial.

Most IT organizations are realizing that one size
doesn't fit all, and that you don't necessarily want the same
system handling your critical data as you do on the desktop.

But you assume gestapo "organization". (nuff said).

I am against you.

Reliability improves with time, that's certain, and modern
Windows is really pretty stable (which wasn't the case with NT,
for example). But the other systems are aging as well. Linux
is becoming stable---it's already stable enough for a lot of
applications---and it scales a lot better than Windows.



Obviously, you don't live in the real world, or at least, you're
not aware of what's going on around you.

Apparently don't ( are you a criminal? ). I assure you I know. You want to
blather more?

bring it?

Anyone restricting his choices to just Windows is an amateur,
who doesn't understand the real world.

So let it be written?

[...]
You said: C++ is dead.
When did I ever say that? Just the contrary, C++ is a lot
more alive than many people want.
In looking to forget it's lineage but still purporting
something like that.
Bullshit. I never forgot C++'s lineage.

I didn't say "you", I said "C++". C++ is mortaly wounded and
maybe you along with it. (Or maybe someone may want their
money back!).

Well, I know a lot more than just C++. And I agree that C++ is
"wounded", in some ways. But not morally.

I said mortally, not morally.

If for no other
reason than the fact that for most applications, there's really
no competitor---about the only possible one would be Ada 95, and
that doesn't seem to have caught on.

then I am sorry and did not mean to hurt you.. apparenly dying is easy, and
apparently I doing that.

 

[James Kanze]

[...]

No, like right now Mr. Union Man who doesn't no his ass from a
hole in the ground.

Like I said, been hearing that for years now. Doesn't seem to
be happening. If anything, with the Web, things are moving the
other direction. (Google doesn't run on Windows.)

Of course you would, but are in denial.

No, I work in the real world. I don't know of any reasonably
large organization that is 100% Windows.

But you assume gestapo "organization". (nuff said).

I am against you.

Who cares? Facts are facts, and if you don't care to deal with
them, that's your problem, not mine.