Common misconceptions about C (C95)

S

spinoza1111

Why would you feel the need to tell us who you plonk? Does it create a
bond?

We had fed the heart on fantasies,
The heart's grown brutal from the fare;
More substance in our enmities
Than in our love; O honey-bees,
Come build in the empty house of the stare.

(WB Yeats, The Stare's Nest by My Window)

The third line answers your excellent question.
 
G

gwowen

Now, my calling you "Nilgerat" (which, as far as I'm aware, is a
neologism) is rather silly and childish, isn't it? Well, so is
calling Keith "Kiki". If you don't like having your name attacked
(and you have made it quite clear that you don't), then attacking
other people's names is poor strategy. Your name is a glass house.

By the way, despite quoting Keith, you didn't actually comment on any
of the text you quoted. So why quote?

Way to stay on topic, Richard. Could you tell me what relevance this
post has to the C programming language?
 
S

spinoza1111

In





spinoza1111wrote:




He allowed 10% for those. His claim is that the other 90% is the code
generation and optimisation.

90%? In an intro? Nonsense. Once you've covered top down and bottom
code generation, manual techniques versus compiler generators, and
scanning versus parsing, there's not much time for code generation and
optimization. And if you don't feed the code generator or optimizer
correct input, there's not point in refining them.
Astounding, truly astounding - now you can't even get the name of the
language designer right!

Shibboleth time. All right, Kernighan, Pike and Ritchie and probably
other people not thought important enough by the big shots.

Of course it does, and the conclusion is "the premise is incorrect".

Once the structured constructs were added to old Basic circa 1978,
Basic was indeed the better language, because C failed the basic task
of a high level language: to conceal an historical accident, that
being von Neumann architecture.
I don't think he needs a laugh quite that badly.
Your book is out of print and sold badly. Are we jealous? Naaaahh...
 
S

Seebs

Now all you need to do is subtract Kernighan and Pike, and you have
the right answer! Congratulations.

You could make sort of a case for including Thompson as at least a major
influence, though.

Still, it does amuse.

-s
 
S

spinoza1111

So he says, and he should know.


I really don't think you understand the meaning of the word.




Now all you need to do is subtract Kernighan and Pike, and you have
the right answer! Congratulations.

Nonsense. C was a team effort, or more likely a conspiracy.
 
S

spinoza1111

This would be true only if there was no time. Unfortunately, you have
acted like a swine ever since I've known you, and you have responded
to my courtesy like a thug.

So **** you, Dickie-Wad.
 
S

spinoza1111

Way to stay on topic, Richard.  Could you tell me what relevance this
post has to the C programming language?

Hast thou not known? Hast thou not heard? Hast it not been laid down
for thee in words of brass?

Their hatred is always on topic, and their dislike of strangers is
always proper in their eyes.

They will ever turn the widow away from their door, and say, she is a
whore,

They will say to the prophets, thou shalt not prophesy, and thou shalt
code in C,

And when one speaks of more than they know, they would say, behold, a
Fool cometh, who speaks of more than we know,

Let us use him yea as our fathers used us, our fathers, who were
slaves and sons of slaves,

Let us show him he is no better than us and must listen to us,

Let us ask him foolish questions, and give him foolish answers, based
on the mistakes of Pike,

The boners of Kernighan, and the brain farts of Dennis Ritchie,

From which we have made gold at the Rock which is Northern, and at
many other banks,

And insurance companies,

So that we can occupy seats of learning, and have pickles, and wines,

And listen to the music, of an harp, played, on an harp, by a Harp,
from Ireland, or someplace like that.
 
I

Ioannis Vranos

spinoza1111 said:
Using malloc with a cast may show a lack of insider knowledge of a
broken language, but it shows purity of heart and competence instead.
I'll take the latter.


Why do you waste your time posting these stuff? It will better for you to
play computer games.


Try some of these:


GL-117, Glest, AssaultCube, Alien Arena, Trigger, LBreakout2.


If you want some more, post a message.




--
Ioannis Vranos

C95 / C++03 Software Developer

http://www.cpp-software.net
 
S

Stefan Ram

Ioannis Vranos said:
Best regards,

Two misconceptions I am aware of:

- »Every statement in C has to be terminated with a semicolon ";".«

http://google.to/search?q="every+statement+in+C"

- »When ISO/IEC 9899:1999 (E) uses »shall«, this is only a
recommendation (otherwise it would use "must" or "has to").«
(This might be more common with German readers who might be
reminded of the verb »should«, when reading »shall«.)
 
W

Walter Banks

spinoza1111 said:
Bullshit. If you don't understand parsing, the compiler is worthless.
. . . . much snipped . . .

Oh yes, and I did finish my book. It is available in stores and you
need to buy a copy. I'd send you a courtesy copy if you deserved one,
but you do not. It covers optimization and spends a whole chapter on
code generation for .Net, but the real meat is parsing since if you
screw up parsing there's not point in either code generation or
optimization, is there now?

Compiler parsing is a simple mechanical process that is a small
part of compiler implementation. Completing the design and
implementation of the code generation would both have led
to a complete book and more significantly provided a balanced
view of the process that wouldn't lead to this kind of outrageous
comment.



Regards,


w..
 
W

Walter Banks

spinoza1111 said:
90%? In an intro? Nonsense. Once you've covered top down and bottom
code generation, manual techniques versus compiler generators, and
scanning versus parsing, there's not much time for code generation and
optimization. And if you don't feed the code generator or optimizer
correct input, there's not point in refining them.

A compiler book without code generation and optimization is like
a flight manual that only teaches take-off's.

w..
 
S

Seebs

A compiler book without code generation and optimization is like
a flight manual that only teaches take-off's.

I think that's a bit drastic. There are legitimate uses for a partial
compiler -- say, for a minilanguage where simply running a local evaluator
on the parsed tree is useful.

There are no uses I can think of for a flight manual which only covers
take-off that do not result in a lot of people dying. A partial compiler
isn't nearly that bad.

-s
 
W

Walter Banks

Seebs said:
I think that's a bit drastic. There are legitimate uses for a partial
compiler -- say, for a minilanguage where simply running a local evaluator
on the parsed tree is useful.

There are no uses I can think of for a flight manual which only covers
take-off that do not result in a lot of people dying. A partial compiler
isn't nearly that bad.

Sorting out the landing is an exercise left to the reader :)

w..
 
K

Keith Thompson

Richard Heathfield said:
In
<72d4c95c-da42-4251-94fe-0ddb1ba28a90@b25g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
spinoza1111 wrote: [more of the same]
It seems you don't understand "courtesy", either.

This is news? To anyone?

Richard, *please* stop feeding the troll. If the only way you can
manage to resist doing so is to killfile him and actually *stop
reading anything he writes*, even if it happend to be relevant to C,
I urge you to do so.

He is trying to destroy this newsgroup, and you are helping him.
 
S

Seebs

He is trying to destroy this newsgroup, and you are helping him.

While Kenny may well be trying to destroy this newsgroup, I am pretty
sure Spinny's merely crazy.

-s
 
K

Keith Thompson

Seebs said:
While Kenny may well be trying to destroy this newsgroup, I am pretty
sure Spinny's merely crazy.

Quite possibly; I won't attempt a diagnosis. But the conclusion is
the same either way.
 
W

Walter Banks

Richard said:
I'm wondering how on earth people can play with this analogy at
all. It's ridiculous.

The compiler I am currently working on is about 250K lines of source
the parser is just under 14K lines and represents a small fraction of the
total effort.

The flight analogy is just that a way of demonstrating that there are
serious consequences to not thinking the whole process through. In
a well designed compiler the parser is part of the overall design that
feeds information forward that is required by future passes and code
generation. Code generation requires planning and understanding
how applications are mapped on a ISA. Good code generation
requires real understanding of the ISA and the intended applications.
In some of the of compilers I have worked on there are serious
consequences to taking design or implementation short cuts. In flight
a good outcome starts with the walk around and flight planning and
a good arrival requires in flight airmanship and a good approach.
There are a lot of parallels. Seebs is right tongue in cheek or
otherwise parser skills have other uses.

This is relevant here because C as a language is often used as both
an system implementation language and an application implementation
language. The tools that are used to translate the C language to
machine code have the dual role of being a flexible translator and
the enforcer of of what is reasonable. In one of the current threads
there are comments about the roles of casts in C. Compilers are not
now just simple translators where casts are an operator but take the
bigger view of application creation that extracts meaning from source
statements and optimize by applying the as if rules of the C standards.

By inhibitor is fixed and the second pot of coffee is ready.

Regards,


Walter..
 
S

spinoza1111

Richard Heathfield said:
In
spinoza1111wrote: [more of the same]
It seems you don't understand "courtesy", either.

This is news?  To anyone?

Richard, *please* stop feeding the troll.  If the only way you can
manage to resist doing so is to killfile him and actually *stop
reading anything he writes*, even if it happend to be relevant to C,
I urge you to do so.

He is trying to destroy this newsgroup, and you are helping him.

Actually, you're "feeding the troll" yourself, aren't you. If you used
killfiles properly this ng would split into parts in which people got
along with each other, and we wouldn't have to put up with you. We
find you just as destructive and offensive as you find us.
 

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