convert a table to a <div> controlled layout

[Travis Newbury]

That shows how completely you have misunderstood me.

No, you obviously misunderstood my comment.

That's because you are a low down little prick that needs drugs to even
get a glimpse of what it might mean to be a man.

How do you know I am not a Native America that uses herbs and
mushrooms for religious purposes? Come-on dorayme, expand your mind a
little. You will find a much happier place, and little need for name
calling.


















bitch

 

[dorayme]

No, you obviously misunderstood my comment.

Why is that obvious? It is the typical sort of mistake I was arguing
against.

You simply have not gotten on to the idea. No particular host will
charge a single person or company more because they are using tables
rather than not. But the cumulative effects of the whole web community
using tables for layout of non-tabular material is great indeed and does
cost real money one way or another.

You will not get onto this idea by sitting there smoking dope or *just*
playing a role of big friendly jester troll here. Or thinking about
yourself, as Republicans tend to do, rather than something a bit larger
and objective.

Come-on dorayme, expand your mind a
little. You will find a much happier place, and little need for name
calling.
bitch

But *you*, the big expert on expanded minds, find the world a happier
place when *you* do the name calling eh? Come on Travis, don't be a
schmuck.

I took exception to your "too" in your reference to partaking of herbs
and saw it as roping me in. True, with the benefit of time, I do see
another interpretation and perhaps it was too hasty of me. So don't make
it into a mountain, old boy.

After Jonathan Little accused me of drug taking a week before because he
could not understand "anything" I said, I am not exactly impressed with
narrow minded insulting "personal" responses to my writings which I
offer in good faith without any personal attacks on anyone.

But if you want to mix it with me, you can do so in two ways. Stand up
and talk, you miserable swine! Or slink off and be silent like Jonathan
Little who doubtless would like to cite the bits of FAQs on netiquette
that suit him, the bit that goes don't respond to taunts. He did not
bother to read the bits that go: don't make taunts in the first place.

How about you and Little getting together an abject document of apology
to me accompanied by a small payment? I would say we can make an end to
the matter for about $US800. You two can squabble about how to
contribute what proportion.

 

[Travis Newbury]

But if you want to mix it with me, you can do so in two ways. Stand up
and talk, you miserable swine! Or slink off and be silent like Jonathan
Little who doubtless would like to cite the bits of FAQs on netiquette
that suit him, the bit that goes don't respond to taunts. He did not
bother to read the bits that go: don't make taunts in the first place.

Is this your evil twin speaking or did you just go Sybil on us?
I would have thought you would have had a little thicker skin.
but
I think your fooling, I think you just want to play confrontational.
And I am about to journey on a 2 week trip across the country, and am
in no mood for your shenanigan's... (just watched Juno with the wife
if you catch the reference)

Anyway Atlanta to Denver to the Grand Canyon to Las Vegas (with a
quick side trip to Area 51 for the third time), LA, San Diego, Roswell
Nm, San Antonio and home again. On the way out we will drive the old
rt 66 (well as much as you can now)

So feel free to sit there with a crooked hair up your ass if you
like. I haven't the time or the inclination to bother with your
arguments. (actually I haven't the foggiest what your are rambling on
and on about.)

How about you and Little getting together an abject document of apology
to me accompanied by a small payment? I would say we can make an end to
the matter for about $US800. You two can squabble about how to
contribute what proportion.

And you say you don't do drugs....

 

[dorayme]

just watched Juno

Yes, I saw and enjoyed Juno while in the theatre. But not afterwards.

See:

http://tinyurl.com/4g8ple

 

[Chaddy2222]

All this reading will not convince Jim on what he wants to know
immediately. Why this particular placing of buttons is easier without
tables. And he will not find this out because it isn't easier on his
skills.

The advantages of more structural HTML mark up and CSS for presentation
appear from a 'whole practice' perspective and this is something hard to
implement without having a real go over a longish time.

Once Jim has made a site, he probably has never had to face redesign. If
he had to do this a lot, then the theoretical advantages of a no-tables
based layouts would sing to him more.

Some people are convinced by mere theory and argument, others by their
own needs and skills and practice.

A great deal of time is spent in the arguments against table layouts on
things that often simply do not loom large for sensible and practical
people:

* Making picture sites accessible to mobile phones, screen readers...

* Responding and satisfying a client in double quick time when he tells
you that the 2,000 page website that took you a year to develop and
launch now should be given a quite different look. Not just colours, not
just fonts, but everything on the left should go on the right and
everything on the right should go on the left and everything on the top
should go on the bottom and everything on the bottom should go on the
top and everything in the middle should go in fifty other places. And to
delete and add tons of new stuff. Does not happen to most website makers
in the real world.

<snip>
This is an interesting point. But with what have just said do you
think that half the reason why these people don't update their
websites is because it just takes up too much time.
If that is the case why even bother having a site at all I know of
sites that have not been updated for two or three years!.
I do not know of any site today that shold have have some kind of
server side include functionality with a CSS file for the style of the
layout, it is just good practice to make the site easy to update at
*ANY* time rather then have a static thing that just takes up space on
a web server.

 

[dorayme]

<and further deep and meaningful points by dorayme too long to quote)

This is an interesting point. But with what have just said do you
think that half the reason why these people don't update their
websites is because it just takes up too much time.

Half the reason, I guess, yes. And part of the reason for *that* is that
it would given their skills. The other part, which is more important and
is the reason they don't make new sites or even new sections of their
existing sites with better practice methods is that they are unconvinced
of the need. And I am saying, they are not necessarily stupid but that
they have a narrower here and now focus, a small picture rather than a
large picture of things. For the details of this, please refer to my
original incredible mini treatise.

If that is the case why even bother having a site at all

I don't follow this? They had a reason in the first place, and it could
still be a useful site. You are a young modern dashing thing Chaddy. For
you, change is life itself. Me, I find value in the unchanging. I like
sculpture a lot, I like pictures in frames and I like my old woollen
pullover with the holes in it and the loose and distorted sleeves, I
like my old pipes to remain with the plug tobacco still stuck in there
from when i gave pipes up 200 years back, and I want Travis to keep on
misunderstanding everything I say. This is cosy and comfortable.

sites that have not been updated for two or three years!.
I do not know of any site today that shold have have some kind of
server side include functionality with a CSS file for the style of the
layout, it is just good practice to make the site easy to update at
*ANY* time rather then have a static thing that just takes up space on
a web server.

Ah, yes, but we are back to my point about morality, larger picture
economy, bigger perspectives, small things that make large differences
when scaled up as practices by greater numbers of people.

 

[tazzyk]

I got the same problem

Well I was working on a website for my boss in the same programm I usually make sites, but now a problem arose.

I need to convert the table like build up from the program to a DIV layout and I have never done this. Eveyone says it's so easy, but just putting DIV tags in ruins the entire site. nothing is where it should be accept for the logo and the main frame.

Does anyone know a good online desciption with all the tags or a converter?

Thanks a lot!