Editors

[Robin Eidissen]

IMHO the best editor is
SciTE(http://scintilla.sourceforge.net/SciTE.html). It supports syntax
highlighting for a plethora of languages, and code folding, brace
matching, indentation guides, LUA scripting and much more. And it Free
Software.

Comes with an installer and some nice extra polish(better default
settings) in this version:
http://gisdeveloper.tripod.com/scite.html

 

[Jeff Relf]

Hi Jerry Coffin,

Ho-o-o-o-ollly crap,

Thanks for that VC7 story:

Such horror. Boy am I glad I didn't upgrade to .NET .

Before you told me that story,
I didn't upgrade simply because I figured
the next upgrade would be a waste of money
just like the VC 5 to 6 was.

And because I was worried about all the .NET bullshit.

Thanks for confirming my fears.

 

[Robin Eidissen]

I hope you aren't using the VC6 compiler.. Perhaps you can bend the
Visual C++ 2003 Toolkit to work with the VC6 IDE, because the new
compiler is incredibly much better.

 

[Derek]

VC7 is much better than VC6, both as a compiler and an

Your statement makes me suspect you've never actually
used EITHER of them.

That's a bit harsh given that one's opinion of an IDE is
largely a matter of purely subjective personal preference.

I have already stated that I am new to VC7 and that my
reasons for upgrading were primarily motivated by the
compiler, not the IDE. I'm not picky about editors.
Sometimes I use SlickEdit. Other times I use TextPad. And
sometimes I good old vi does the trick.

A few extra steps to perform some simple actions is
not a big deal when I consider that I gain a much more
standard-compliant compiler, a better debugger, and some
nice IDE features like tabbed autohide docking windows.

I sympathize with your very specific example, but if I had
a code snippet to compile, I would just use the command
line and not bother with a project in VC6 or 7.

Ultimately it's a matter of preference. Like all things
Microsoft, you either love 'em or hate 'em. I happen to
think VC7 is pretty good.

 

[Jeff Relf]

Hi Robin Eidissen,

Re: VC6 vs. 7 .

You commented,
" the new compiler is incredibly much better. "

Hmm ... Better at what ? Standards ? Optimizations ?

I might not need the same features as you.

 

[Robin Eidissen]

Hi Robin Eidissen,

Re: VC6 vs. 7 .

You commented,
" the new compiler is incredibly much better. "

Hmm ... Better at what ? Standards ? Optimizations ?

I might not need the same features as you.

Well you have a point there, but it's definately better at both.

 

[Frederic Banaszak]

I hope you aren't using the VC6 compiler.. Perhaps you can bend the
Visual C++ 2003 Toolkit to work with the VC6 IDE, because the new
compiler is incredibly much better.

No bending needed. Just change some options to point to the new
compiler, includes, and libs.

Works great, lasts a long time.

 

[Robin Eidissen]

No bending needed. Just change some options to point to the new
compiler, includes, and libs.

Works great, lasts a long time.

Is there anywhere one can get the dynamically linked multithreaded
runtime? It doesn't come with the toolkit.

 

[Jeff Relf]

Hi Derek,

You said VC7 has, " a better debugger ".

What do you think is better about it ?

 

[Jussi Jumppanen]

TextPad (http://www.textpad.com). Awesome editor.

For a real Windows programmer's editor take a look at Zeus

http://www.zeusedit.com/lookmain.html

Some of the Zeus programming features include:

+ Code completion and intellisensing
+ Integrated class browser
+ Project/workspace management
+ Fully configurable syntax highlighting
+ Seamless FTP editing
+ Integrated version control using the Microsoft Source Code
Control (SCC) interface, including CVS integration.
+ Quick Help context sensitive help engine

Jussi Jumppanen
http://www.zeusedit.com

 

[John Harrison]

Hi John Harrison,

You mentioned something called, " dynamic help " in VC7.

From what I Googled, DH sounds like something I don't want.
I'm glad I didn't upgrade to MS Dev VC++ 7 ( .NET ).

I found this about how to get rid of DH:

Close the DH tool window
and then setting this registry value from NO to YES:
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\VisualStudio\7.1\Dynamic Help]
"Never Show DH on F1"="YES"

I am very, very grateful.

' We showed Dynamic Help to help you
choose one of the alternate possible F1 topics
[ " F1 Disambiguation " ]
in case we guessed wrong which " MessageBox "
you wanted help on.
That said, it's clear that some users
don't want Dynamic Help to stick around --
it was our oversight that
we didn't take that case into account.
My apologies for this. '

Ha, ha!!

john

 

[Frank Looper]

TextPad (http://www.textpad.com). Awesome editor.

Another good one (almost identical to TextPad) is EditPlus2. If you like
one, you'll like the other.

Also see EditPad. I've had 2000+ html files open at once for editing at the
same time(global find-and-replace). There are free and paid versions, but I
use the "lite" free one.

http://www.editpadlite.com/

Frank

 

[Jeff Relf]

Hi John Harrison,

Re: How to Turn off VC7's dynamic help.

You commented to me, " I am very, very grateful. "

Wow, I actually did some good on Usenet ?

I think that is a first for me.

 

[Derek]

You said VC7 has, " a better debugger ".

What do you think is better about it ?

A big plus for me is that I can debug multiple
processes across multiple machines at the same
time.

I also like that I can step into a specific
function to avoid ctors and mundane code like
overloaded * and -> operators in smart ptrs.

Not having to specify additional DLLs to set
breakpoints is not too shabby.

Minidumps also sound interesting, though I
haven't played with them much.

 

[Jorge Rivera]

I heard all your whining, and still like VS .NET 2003 much better than VC6.

For the simple task of copying and pasting, then running the compiler,
just use emacs. Visual Studio is aimed at large scale projects, not
test scripts.

I feel the UI is more intuitive, there is better help, and many other
minor improvements.

In any case, it is not "much WORSE" than VC6.

Jorge L.

 

[Pmb]

TextPad (http://www.textpad.com). Awesome editor.

How do I do a build with TextPad? It seems like there should be a menu
selection of either "Build" or "Make" under the "Tools" menu but there
isn't.

Pmb

 

[Derek]

How do I do a build with TextPad? It seems likethere
should be a menu selection of either "Build" or "Make"
under the "Tools" menu but there isn't.

You have to create one. Configure->Preferences->Tools.

 

[Jerry Coffin]

I heard all your whining, and still like VS .NET 2003 much better than VC6.

I gave a specific, detailed recitation of FACTS. You've replied by
talking about what you like and how you feel, and then have the nerve
to accuse me of "whining"?

I've simply pointed out that it's a pile of feces. You can claim you
like the smell of feces all you want, but that won't change it into a
boquet of roses.

For the simple task of copying and pasting, then running the compiler,
just use emacs.

Suggesting a different environment for common scenarios shows that
even you realize how bad it's design is, even if you're not willing to
admit it.

Visual Studio is aimed at large scale projects, not
test scripts.

This is pure nonsense. First of all, adding 5 extra steps to the
simple task of creating a file does not improve management of large
projects. Second, a large project still involves all the "small"
tasks involved in a small project. For example, you might create a
hundred or more files intead of a half dozen -- but you stil have to
create files, and that task is roughly 5 times more difficult in VS 7
than in anything that's at all well designed.

Now, it's true that large projects demand features that smaller
projects don't. What's also true is that VS 7 is missing most of
those features. Just for one obvious example, when you're working
with a large project, it's often useful to be able to point at an
entire directory and do (for example) a search and replace on all the
files in the directory. In a case like this, you're likely to want a
tagged regular expression in your search and replace.

Now, if you look at (for one example) MS's no ancient and creaky PWB,
you'll find that it supports this directly. If you look at VS 6,
you'll find that it doesn't support it quite as well -- it allows you
to do a search across a directory, but replacements can only be done
in open files.

If you look at VS 7, you'll find that tagged regular expressions no
longer work, so for all practical purposes, you can no longer do it at
all.

To make a long story short, it's true that there are differences
between managing small projects and large ones, but it's also true
that large projects are exactly where VS 7's deficiencies become the
most insufferable.

I feel the UI is more intuitive, there is better help, and many other
minor improvements.

Here's the difference between us: I gave a specific, detailed
reciation of FACTS. You reply by talking about how you "feel".

In any case, it is not "much WORSE" than VC6.

Yes, it really is. It does an exceptionally poor job of supporting
many (MOST, truth be told) of the things that are needed on a regular
basis. Worse, most of its problems are entirely gratuitous. There
are some design decisions that have to be made about sizes of projects
to be supported, and it's true that some of the things that contribute
to manageability of large projects can seem clumsy on smaller ones.

Unfortunately, none of these signifies in the case of VS 7: its
biggest shortcomings are simply a result of a design that's really and
truly bad. The example I've already cited is typical: creating a file
in five steps won't be more efficient than doing it in one step, even
if you repeat the process a thousand times.

Now, that's not to say (and I've never said) that every idea in VS 7
was a bad one -- it has a few good ideas, and a few bugs have been
fixed. Nonetheless, the overall difference is clearly negative, and
drastically so. It's also very specifically talking about the
environment, not the compiler -- the compiler is a totally separate
question.

 

[Jerry Coffin]

That's a bit harsh given that one's opinion of an IDE is
largely a matter of purely subjective personal preference.

What I recited was not subject, nor was it personal preference -- it
was FACTS about what it took to carry out one simple operation.

Opinions fill in where facts aren't available -- but in this case,
objective facts ARE available, and they show VS 7 to be inferior in
nearly every possible respect.

I have already stated that I am new to VC7 and that my
reasons for upgrading were primarily motivated by the
compiler, not the IDE.

The compiler IS drastically improved -- but if you look back at the
subject line, you'll realize that it's utterly irrelevant to this
discussion, which is about editors. Since that was the subject at
hand, I confined my comments to the editor, not the compiler.

As far as compilers go, it's true that MS has improved it dramatically
-- but it's NOT true that you need to switch editors to use an
improved compiler. Just for example, Intel's C++ compiler quite
clearly conforms even more closely than the current MS compiler, and
it still works quite nicely with VS 6.

[ ... ]

A few extra steps to perform some simple actions is
not a big deal when I consider that I gain a much more
standard-compliant compiler, a better debugger, and some
nice IDE features like tabbed autohide docking windows.

The editor has not gained you a better compiler. The editor has not
gained you a better debugger. The editor HAS made many (most, truth
be told) actions necessary on the order of three to fives times as
difficult. In simple terms, that's a BAD editor.

It's true that it has tabbed docking windows, and they are largely a
matter of taste -- but IMO, even at very best they're insufficient to
make up for the fact that editing with VS 7 is substantially more
difficult than with nearly any other editor on the planet.

I sympathize with your very specific example, but if I had
a code snippet to compile, I would just use the command
line and not bother with a project in VC6 or 7.

You are, of course, welcome to do things as you wish. My opinion is
that if the IDE was well designed, there would be no reason to use a
command line instead. I'm the first to admit that VC 6 is less than
perfect in this regard, but that doesn't change the fact that VS 7 is
drastically worse.

I'd also note that while I cited the facts with regard to one specific
scenario, they apply to other scenarios as well -- the fact is that
creating files is not exactly a rare operation, and VS 7 makes it
something like 5 times more difficult than any other editor I can
think of.

Ultimately it's a matter of preference. Like all things
Microsoft, you either love 'em or hate 'em. I happen to
think VC7 is pretty good.

I agree that VC 7 (the compiler) is quite good. The editor is a
different story though -- it's a mess, and its problems do not
contribute anything positive to any use under any circumstances.

 

[Derek]

Your statement makes me suspect you've never actually

What I recited was not subject, nor was it personal
preference -- it was FACTS about what it took to carry
out one simple operation.

I don't dispute that some things in VC7 are harder than
they were in VC6. But the importance of these "facts" is
subjective. It clearly makes you angry to have to click
extra buttons, while I on the other hand could not care
less. Most of my time is spent writing and debugging code,
not adding files or creating projects. A few extra clicks
now and then just don't bother me.

Opinions fill in where facts aren't available -- but in
this case, objective facts ARE available, and they show
VS 7 to be inferior in nearly every possible respect.

"Every possible respect"? If you think that's a fact you
must live in a very subjective universe.

The compiler IS drastically improved -- but if you look
back at the subject line, you'll realize that it's
utterly irrelevant to this discussion, which is about
editors. Since that was the subject at hand, I confined
my comments to the editor, not the compiler.

Fair enough.

As far as compilers go...

So much for taking your own advice.

The editor has not gained you a better compiler. The
editor has not gained you a better debugger. The editor
HAS made many (most, truth be told) actions necessary
on the order of three to fives times as difficult. In
simple terms, that's a BAD editor.

Then don't use it.

You are, of course, welcome to do things as you wish.
My opinion is that if the IDE was well designed, there
would be no reason to use a command line instead. I'm
the first to admit that VC 6 is less than perfect in this
regard, but that doesn't change the fact that VS 7 is
drastically worse.

Then don't use it.

I'd also note that while I cited the facts with regard to
one specific scenario, they apply to other scenarios as
well -- the fact is that creating files is not exactly a
rare operation, and VS 7 makes it something like 5 times
more difficult than any other editor I can think of.

Then don't use it.

I agree that VC 7 (the compiler) is quite good. The
editor is a different story though -- it's a mess, and
its problems do not contribute anything positive to any
use under any circumstances.

Then don't use it.