Egos, heartlessness, and limitations

[James Mills]

I may regret wading into a flame-war, but...

As long as we leave it at that!

I got started with Python in 2002.  I took one look at TKinter, said
"yuck!", and went searching for something else.  Now, wxPython is a
bit clunky for a Python programmer because of its strong ties to C++
-- but that's what I chose, and it has served me well.  I would like
to see wxPython become the default GUI for our very fine programming
language.

That's fine and that's your choice. I however don't feel
that "we" (as a community) or they (the python developers)
should make any GUI toolkit the default for Python (let
alone any programming language).

IHMO GUI toolkits are not a feature of the language but
rather a tool (or library) which is compatible in some way
with your language.

Python is a fine language.

So what if some of the code written _in Python_
(libraires, tools, frameworks, whatever) are a bit
poorly written, documented, or are lacking in features ?

Is this Python's fault ? Should it be ? I don't think so.

This is probably the reason for different groups in the first
place (python-dev, python-core-mentoring, python-ideas, etc)
so that there is a clear separation of "what's what".

Can we stop arguing about this now ?

cheers
James

 

[Terry Reedy]

Personally, I'm glad that most of Python Dev don't hang around here. We
are far better off if Python Dev, you know, actually Devs Python, rather
than answering (mostly) easy questions and getting stuck in tar-pits.

Since 3.2 was released 45 days ago, the active devs have been busy.
Misc/News in the repository has about about 170 entries for 3.3. At
least 80% of the changes were also made to 3.1 and 3.2, and most of
those to 2.7 also. There were perhaps another 10 just for 2.7. So there
are about 180 unique changes for an average of 4 per day. I suspect the
average time for each is at least an hour.

When I get up to speed with hg and start contributing again, I will
spend less time here.

 

[Steven D'Aprano]

I may regret wading into a flame-war, but...

I got started with Python in 2002. I took one look at TKinter, said
"yuck!", and went searching for something else. Now, wxPython is a bit
clunky for a Python programmer because of its strong ties to C++ -- but
that's what I chose, and it has served me well. I would like to see
wxPython become the default GUI for our very fine programming language.

So would many others, but unfortunately there are complications that more
or less rule out wxPython being supplied as part of the standard library.
For example, that would require the wxPython developers agreeing to
synchronizing wxPython updates with Python's schedule, and that's
unlikely to happen.

Fortunately, if you're using a recent Linux or a Mac with MacPorts,
installing wxPython should never be more than one command line (or half a
dozen clicks) away. Windows users aren't quite so lucky, but still, it's
not like installing it is a major hassle.

Also, in more recent versions of Python, Tkinter has had something of a
face lift with the introduction of "tiled TK" with native-looking widgets.

 

[Chris Angelico]

Don't panic, there are plenty of experts here

It's an oft-cited troll complaint that many python big-wigs (Guido,
Raymond H, et al) don't subscribe to python-list.

Apart from Guido, I wouldn't even recognize their names. (I have no
idea who Raymond H is or what his position in the community is.) Does
this make me a bad Python programmer? I don't think so; just makes me
not a major member of the community. (Apologies to Raymond, I don't
mean to slight your contributions; but I would respect you on the
basis of your posts on this list, regardless of your Subversion
contribs.)

It's also an oft-cited troll conspiracy that Guido hangs out on
python-list and posts under various pseudonyms.  I think it would be
kinda fun if he did...

What if he's rantingrick? He would SO be laughing right now....

Chris Angelico

 

[jmfauth]

On 14 avr, 08:59,

Fortunately, if you're using a recent Linux or a Mac with MacPorts,
installing wxPython should never be more than one command line (or half a
dozen clicks) away. Windows users aren't quite so lucky, but still, it's
not like installing it is a major hassle.

Probably, the joke of the day

 

[Westley Martínez]

[...]

Funny you should bring that up. The folks on python-dev are currently
making a substantial push to increase involvement in python core
development through the "Python Mentors" program.

Site here:
[...]

So anyone following along this thread, if you're interested in making a
genuine contribution to python as a language, this is a great time and
place to start.

That was a very helpful post Ian, thank you!

However i have a sneaking suspicion that if i join this group i will
be denied as was the case with other python groups. However the
question remains. Why do we need yet another group? Why can we not use
the comp.lang.python that everyone knows already. Since this is a
group created for noobs, how do you expect them to find out about it?
I have been hanging around for over four years and i did not know
until now. Go figure. The first place people are going to go for
online help is
comp.lang.X for whatever language they are learning.

And who pissed in Guido's punch bowl anyway? Why is he such an elitist
now? Why can he not come over once and a while and rub shoulders with
the little people? He does not have to hang out every day, just drop
in once a week or month at least.

I guess i am just old fashioned but i though "benevolent" was a
*positive* moniker. We need to know what kind of leader we are dealing
with here. We deserve that much. And if he is really "benevolent" then
*I* will apologize to both him and the community at whole. Until then
i wait...

Nobody has to do anything. This is an open source project.

 

[Grant Edwards]

[the usual bait]

One has to congratulate RR on how many fish he catches. I guess we
should just be glad that in this electronic ocean overfishing doesn't
cause a population crash.

 

[Littlefield, Tyler]

And who pissed in Guido's punch bowl anyway? Why is he such an elitist

now? Why can he not come over once and a while and rub shoulders with

 

[rusi]

 >And who pissed in Guido's punch bowl anyway? Why is he such an elitist
 >now? Why can he not come over once and a while and rub shoulders withhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMEe7JqBgvg

He he -- Bravo!