[EVALUATION] - E03c - The Ruby Object Model (Revised Documentation)

I

Ilias Lazaridis

James said:
I wish I didn't have to but you have a clearly incorrect arrow and
label. This has been adequately proven by plenty of experts on this
list.

which experts?

those who are unable to communicate their knowledge?

e.g. due to commonly recognised terminology and notations?
The language designer himself has asked you to remove it. You

no, he has stated that it's _confusing_ (not wrong).

[but I have a surprise in the next version]
have become the problem you were complaining about: You are now
publishing false documentation.

You claim your "evaluation" is a service to the Ruby community.
However, making incorrect documentation easily accessible is just the
opposite.

the incorrect (and thus completely missleading) documentation is within
"ri class"
If someone learning Ruby stumbles upon your site and believes
what they read there, you have done both the individual and the
community a great disservice.

everything is evaluatable by a ruby standard installation and an small
irb session.
You are constantly proving a complete lack of all essential social
skills and I feel we're going above and beyond the call to ignore this
[...] - (aborted processing)

I'm tired of this "bad-boy-stuff"
James Edward Gray II

..
 
I

Ilias Lazaridis

Lionel Thiry wrote:
[...]
which shows a great lack of tact,
[...]

your interpretation is irrelevant.

as takt is.

mastering the Ruby Object Model is relevant.

..
 
I

Ilias Lazaridis

Florian said:
Why is it so hard to say "doesn't inherit" instead of "inherits from
non-existent"? Expertise isn't making things looking more complex than
[...] - (hug text and code)

sorry, I cannot read your document (nex context)

everything is in the diagramm (original context).

the corrected version of "ri class".

..
 
I

Ilias Lazaridis

Christian said:
Dude, you drive me crazy.

~ruby/object.c:

rb_cObject = boot_defclass("Object", 0);
rb_cModule = boot_defclass("Module", rb_cObject);
rb_cClass = boot_defclass("Class", rb_cModule);

aah, low-level code.

nice!
as you can see Object inherits from a NULL pointer, that is:
It doesn't inherit from anything. Nada.

A NULL pointer is not nil, as you can see in ~ruby/ruby.h:

#define Qnil 4

Believe it or not, but STFU,

just becoming warm.

..
 
I

Ilias Lazaridis

Jim said:
Ilias Lazaridis said:


The class has no "name". That means it is anonymous. It does not mean it
doesn't exist.
[...]

In context of Language Object Model, the class does not exist.

until someone showcases, how to _directly_ access this mystic [meta]class.

..
 
I

Ilias Lazaridis

Martin said:
Ruby supports the concept of anonymous but reachable objects.
[...] - (ommitted intro)
Likewise, (Object) is
not ruby syntax, but shorthand for "the singleton class of the class
object Object", and is likewise valuable (try redrawing the diagram
using the expanded form) and understood.

martin

Ruby's nonstandard notation has not very much relevance to me.

But let's see your definitions:

(Object) = "the singleton class of the class object Object"

Object = ?

..
 
L

Lionel Thiry

Ilias Lazaridis a écrit :
Lionel Thiry wrote:
[...]
which shows a great lack of tact,

[...]

your interpretation is irrelevant.

as takt is.

?!

Do you seriously claim that you don't care about tact (or anything related to it
as courtesy, social skill, and so on)?
 
D

David Mitchell

Ilias said:
this library is irrelevant.

and said:
your interpretation is irrelevant.

mastering the Ruby Object Model is relevant.

One word: Borg

--
David Mitchell
Software Engineer
Telogis

NOTICE:
This message (including any attachments) contains CONFIDENTIAL
INFORMATION intended for a specific individual and purpose, and
is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient,
you should delete this message and are hereby notified that any
disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the
taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited.
 
M

Mark Smith

Ilias Lazaridis said the following on 4/19/2005 9:37 PM:
Ruby's nonstandard notation has not very much relevance to me.

But let's see your definitions:

(Object) = "the singleton class of the class object Object"

Object = ?

Ilias,

Do you not know what "Object" is in Ruby? And you are trying to create
a model to correct what was designed by Matz--the creator of Ruby?

Please, stop trying to compare Ruby to your "fictive language" until you
first read the Ruby documentation.

ri Object states . . .

---------------------------------------------------------- Class: Object
+Object+ is the parent class of all classes in Ruby. Its methods
are therefore available to all objects unless explicitly
overridden.

+Object+ mixes in the +Kernel+ module, making the built-in kernel
functions globally accessible. Although the instance methods of
+Object+ are defined by the +Kernel+ module, we have chosen to
document them here for clarity.

In the descriptions of Object's methods, the parameter _symbol_
refers to a symbol, which is either a quoted string or a +Symbol+
(such as +:name+).
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm curious.

Does your [EVALUATION] have a purpose?

Is there an audience for it? Or are you just doing this as an exercise?

Many others have suggested material you could read to understand Ruby
better. They've suggested that you write some code to see how Ruby
really works. Instead, you expend abundant amounts of time and energy
trying to get others to review your material, and then dismiss honest
attempts to help you learn what you do not know.

Read the Ruby documentation, and evaluate your own "evaluation"--or else
just give up and try to create a "fictive" model of assembly language.

[now back to my lurking]

Regards,

Mark Smith mailto:mas.lists[at]cox.net
================================================================
A: Yes.
Q: Are you sure?
================================================================
 
M

Mark Smith

Ilias Lazaridis said the following on 4/19/2005 9:35 PM:
Lionel Thiry wrote:
[...]

your interpretation is irrelevant.

as takt is.

mastering the Ruby Object Model is relevant.

Your Ruby Object Model is irrelevant (to me).

Writing programs in Ruby that can manipulate data to solve real life
information problems . . . Now THAT is relevant.

Have you written a single program in Ruby? Why not?

--
Regards,

Mark Smith mailto:mas.lists[at]cox.net
================================================================
A: Yes.
Q: Are you sure?
================================================================
 
D

David Mitchell

Let me see how closely I can predict Ilias's answer. Please note, this
is a parody. I'm just taking the piss. (OT: Please don't pull me up for
the apostrophe I have put in Ilias's name, some camps consider it
correct, others don't, it's not hugely important).

<PissTake>

Mark said:
Do you not know what "Object" is in Ruby?

of course
And you are trying to create
a model to correct what was designed by Matz--the creator of Ruby?

clarify

and to correct existing documentation
Please, stop trying to compare Ruby to your "fictive language" until you
first read the Ruby documentation.
irrelevant

ri Object states . . . [snip]

obvious

Does your [EVALUATION] have a purpose?
yes

Is there an audience for it? Or are you just doing this as an exercise?
yes

Many others have suggested material you could read to understand Ruby
better. They've suggested that you write some code to see how Ruby
really works. Instead, you expend abundant amounts of time and energy
trying to get others to review your material, and then dismiss honest
attempts to help you learn what you do not know.

if that is what you call the type of confrontational behaviour I have
come to expect from this list
Read the Ruby documentation, and evaluate your own "evaluation"--or else
just give up and try to create a "fictive" model of assembly language.

case in point

</PissTake>

--
David Mitchell
Software Engineer
Telogis

NOTICE:
This message (including any attachments) contains CONFIDENTIAL
INFORMATION intended for a specific individual and purpose, and
is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient,
you should delete this message and are hereby notified that any
disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the
taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited.
 
I

Ilias Lazaridis

Lionel said:
Ilias Lazaridis a écrit :
Lionel Thiry wrote:
[...]
which shows a great lack of tact,


[...]

your interpretation is irrelevant.

as takt is.


?!

Do you seriously claim that you don't care about tact (or anything
related to it as courtesy, social skill, and so on)?

No.

I don't care about your [faulty] interpretations about 'takt'.

..
 
I

Ilias Lazaridis

Mark said:
Ilias Lazaridis said the following on 4/19/2005 9:37 PM: [...]
Ruby's nonstandard notation has not very much relevance to me.

But let's see your definitions:

(Object) = "the singleton class of the class object Object"

Object = ?

Ilias,

Do you not know what "Object" is in Ruby? And you are trying to create
a model to correct what was designed by Matz--the creator of Ruby?

Please, stop trying to compare Ruby to your "fictive language" until you
first read the Ruby documentation.
[...]

please wake up.

I'm discussing the documentation.

specificly: ri Class

..
 
I

Ilias Lazaridis

Mark said:
Ilias Lazaridis said the following on 4/19/2005 9:35 PM:
Lionel Thiry wrote:
[...]

your interpretation is irrelevant.

as takt is.

mastering the Ruby Object Model is relevant.

Your Ruby Object Model is irrelevant (to me).

Writing programs in Ruby that can manipulate data to solve real life
information problems . . . Now THAT is relevant.

Have you written a single program in Ruby? Why not?

I've written "Talker":

http://lazaridis.com/case/lang/ruby/base.html

which hits on several limitations.

I've tried to overcome those.

Hitting on missleading documentation.

Thus I create the doc's myself.

http://lazaridis.com/case/lang/ruby/TheRubyObjectModel.png

To be able to continue.

..
 
L

Luke Graham

Mark said:
Ilias Lazaridis said the following on 4/19/2005 9:35 PM:
Lionel Thiry wrote:
[...]

your interpretation is irrelevant.

as takt is.

mastering the Ruby Object Model is relevant.

Your Ruby Object Model is irrelevant (to me).

Writing programs in Ruby that can manipulate data to solve real life
information problems . . . Now THAT is relevant.

Have you written a single program in Ruby? Why not?

I've written "Talker":

http://lazaridis.com/case/lang/ruby/base.html

which hits on several limitations.

If anyones wondering, his app prints a couple of strings, most of
which complain about lack of meta-stuff in ruby. I wonder if its a
sample of the AI that drives him?
 
V

vruz

If anyones wondering, his app prints a couple of strings, most of
which complain about lack of meta-stuff in ruby. I wonder if its a
sample of the AI that drives him?

what does AI stand for ?

(I understand "Artificial" but the rest of the traditional acception
doesn't seem to apply here)
 
V

vruz

I wish I didn't have to but you have a clearly incorrect arrow and
which experts?

those who are unable to communicate their knowledge?

Among others, people who are authors the of code you're profiting from.

Among others the highly respected creator of the Ruby language, who
many here believe to be a genius and a person of excellent human
qualities.

Will you show us some minimal display of decency ?
 
L

Luke Graham

what does AI stand for ?

(I understand "Artificial" but the rest of the traditional acception
doesn't seem to apply here)

hehe

Ilias, before you close this thread, let me just say that Ive just
read your resume. If half of the stuff on there is true, you do have
experience with hardware. Why are you here asking strange questions
and making strange assertions about programming languages? Maybe you
should write a fictive language.

If your resume is real, your mind works differently to most - and
seeing as Ive dealt with people like that before and know their likely
reaction, let me assure you its not necessarily a good thing. If its
invented, then youre an incredibly dedicated troll. I am tempted to
call the number listed just to see what happens. Assuming its real,
you must have made money from that start-up company in order to fund
so many years of unpaid internet research.

I have to say though, the Ilias Lazaridis I saw on the university
website is not old enough to have that resume. Care to confirm or deny
that its you?
 

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