Frames trouble

Isofarro · Sep 2, 2003

Paul Weikel wrote:

[Frames]

Okay, maybe they do seem less professional, but its pretty obvious that my
site is graphically intensive and I dont want to have to have my user
re-downoad the menu each time he/she goes to another page.

If the menu itself is graphically intensive, then there's no problem not
using frames since images tend to be cached by the browser, so only the
actual HTML of the menu gets redelivered on each page. Since most of the
presentational aspects of the menu can be encapsulated in CSS (which is
also cached), the required HTML should be pretty small not to add much
weight to the rest of the page. So the effects you fear are minimal.

Paul Weikel · Sep 2, 2003

You cannot fix a size, no matter how large the browser window is.

Everything is rendered inside that window and so everything depends
on its size.

Why do you want to lock the conent frame??

I'd like to lock the content frame so that all the information stays within
the borders of the menu and header. I'd like every page in the content
frame to be the exact same size, so that there is no scrolling involved (the
content page there now is simply a test page). I basically want my whole
site to be encapsulated in the shape of a rectangle. I'm going for a look
that is more of an application rather then a webpage. Do you see where I'm
going? Something similar to what Flash can do, but by using strictly HTML
code.

Is that possilble by using frames?

- Paul

Michael Weber · Sep 2, 2003

Hi Paul,

[Tue, 02 Sep 2003 18:19:45 GMT/Paul Weikel]

I'd like to lock the content frame so that all the information stays within
the borders of the menu and header.

If you want to do that, you even dont need frames. (A little menu
to load in every new page wouldnt be such a great thing)

Is that possilble by using frames?

No. When a user drags the window wider than your header-gif is,
the content-frame will widen, too. The advantage of frames IMO is
to have different pages that are independent from each other. What
you are looking for just is a centered div with a fixed size
(viewport) - lets say 799x500. Thats possible, but not ideal if you
want to have scrollbars for your content (some older browser cant
handle overflow-rules).

regs
michael

Els · Sep 3, 2003

Paul said:
I'd like to lock the content frame so that all the information stays within
the borders of the menu and header. I'd like every page in the content
frame to be the exact same size, so that there is no scrolling involved (the
content page there now is simply a test page). I basically want my whole
site to be encapsulated in the shape of a rectangle. I'm going for a look
that is more of an application rather then a webpage. Do you see where I'm
going? Something similar to what Flash can do, but by using strictly HTML
code.

Is that possilble by using frames?

I did that on www.mediatech.nl/~rachel/index.html
The thing is that all the frames are inside an inline frame
(iframe) with fixed width and height. Any scrolling needed,
will be on the entire page. Not on any of the frames inside
seperately.

<body style="margin:0;">
<div align=center>
<iframe src="entireframesetpage.html" width="1013"
height="732" frameborder="0" marginheight="0"
marginwidth="0" hspace="0" vspace="0">
<center>
Your browser doesn't support inline frames.<br>
Please click <a href="entireframesetpage.html">here</a> to
see the site.<br>
</center>
</iframe></div>
</body>

This doesn't validate, you'd have to make some changes, but
this is how it worked for me.

I don't recommend it, for all the already mentioned reasons,
but it is possible, yes. I'm not proud of it, but I did it ;-)

Michael Weber · Sep 3, 2003

Hi Els,

[Wed, 03 Sep 2003 10:11:03 +0200/Els]

I did that on www.mediatech.nl/~rachel/index.html
The thing is that all the frames are inside an inline frame
(iframe) with fixed width and height. Any scrolling needed,
will be on the entire page. Not on any of the frames inside
seperately.

<body style="margin:0;">
<div align=center>
<iframe src="entireframesetpage.html" width="1013"
height="732" frameborder="0" marginheight="0"
marginwidth="0" hspace="0" vspace="0">
<center>
Your browser doesn't support inline frames.<br>
Please click <a href="entireframesetpage.html">here</a> to
see the site.<br>
</center>
</iframe></div>
</body>

This doesn't validate, you'd have to make some changes, but
this is how it worked for me.

with normal frames, this could be done, too, with

<frameset rows="*,450,*" frameborder="0" border="0">
<frame src="blank.htm" scrolling="no" name="blank1" noresize>
<frameset cols="*,120,600,*" frameborder="0" border="0">
<frame src="blank.htm" scrolling="no" name="blank2" noresize>
<frame src="navi.htm" scrolling="no" name="menu" noresize>
<frame src="cont.htm" scrolling="auto" name="content" noresize>
<frame src="blank.htm" scrolling="no" name="blank3" noresize>
</frameset>
<frame src="blank.htm" scrolling="no" name="blank4" noresize>
</frameset>

....but Paul would need at least 6(!!) frames - and 4 of 6 are
useless. Without frames could be

<html><head><style type="text/css">
html {margin:0; padding:0;background: #000;}
..page {position:absolute; top:50%; left:50%;
margin:-225px 0 0 -375px;width:750px;height:450px;
border:2px solid #fff;background:#888 url(bodydgrau.gif)}
..info {position:absolute; top:50%; left:50%;
margin:225px 0 0 -375px;font: 70% arial, sans-serif; color:#777}
</style></head><body><div class="page">menu-div + content</div>
<div class="info">The whole thing for a <a href="#" class="x">1280
</a> resolution</div></body></html>

regs
michael

Els · Sep 3, 2003

Michael said:
Hi Els,

[Wed, 03 Sep 2003 10:11:03 +0200/Els]

I did that on www.mediatech.nl/~rachel/index.html
The thing is that all the frames are inside an inline frame
(iframe) with fixed width and height. Any scrolling needed,
will be on the entire page. Not on any of the frames inside
seperately.

<body style="margin:0;">
<div align=center>
<iframe src="entireframesetpage.html" width="1013"
height="732" frameborder="0" marginheight="0"
marginwidth="0" hspace="0" vspace="0">
<center>
Your browser doesn't support inline frames.<br>
Please click <a href="entireframesetpage.html">here</a> to
see the site.<br>
</center>
</iframe></div>
</body>

This doesn't validate, you'd have to make some changes, but
this is how it worked for me.

Click to expand...

with normal frames, this could be done, too, with

<frameset rows="*,450,*" frameborder="0" border="0">
<frame src="blank.htm" scrolling="no" name="blank1" noresize>
<frameset cols="*,120,600,*" frameborder="0" border="0">
<frame src="blank.htm" scrolling="no" name="blank2" noresize>
<frame src="navi.htm" scrolling="no" name="menu" noresize>
<frame src="cont.htm" scrolling="auto" name="content" noresize>
<frame src="blank.htm" scrolling="no" name="blank3" noresize>
</frameset>
<frame src="blank.htm" scrolling="no" name="blank4" noresize>
</frameset>

I thought it had to be possible, but didn't have the time to
think it over, so I just mentioned the way I did it 6 months
ago. It was even worse then; I used a
javascript-no-resize-full-screen-width/height-pop-up which
held the a.m. iframe... :$

...but Paul would need at least 6(!!) frames - and 4 of 6 are
useless. Without frames could be

<html><head><style type="text/css">
html {margin:0; padding:0;background: #000;}
.page {position:absolute; top:50%; left:50%;
margin:-225px 0 0 -375px;width:750px;height:450px;
border:2px solid #fff;background:#888 url(bodydgrau.gif)}
.info {position:absolute; top:50%; left:50%;
margin:225px 0 0 -375px;font: 70% arial, sans-serif; color:#777}
</style></head><body><div class="page">menu-div + content</div>
<div class="info">The whole thing for a <a href="#" class="x">1280
</a> resolution</div></body></html>

Michael,
The latter method is of course much better, but... my guess
is Paul will go for the frames. It's the way I think he has
set his mind to using frames; I recognize it from the way I
was thinking/talking when I started on that site first time.
It took me 4, 5 months to 'see the light' ;-)

Paul,
Don't do it! Don't use frames!
;-)

Whitecrest · Sep 4, 2003

I'm new to this newsgroup so I should probably introduce myself. My
name is Paul. I currently live in beautiful northern Wyoming. I am
a freelance graphics artist and graduate from Purdue Universities Computer
Graphics Technology program. I specialize in 3D animation and have a
limited background in Multimedia.

Have you thought about changing to one iframe? You can accomplish the
exact same thing with and absolute positioned iframe.

Whitecrest · Sep 4, 2003

If the menu itself is graphically intensive, then there's no problem not
using frames since images tend to be cached by the browser....

Tend to be? You can not depend anything on the client. You know, and
preach that. So if the graphic heavy menu could cause an issue, then
frames are a valid.

Isofarro · Sep 5, 2003

Whitecrest said:
Tend to be? You can not depend anything on the client.

That would also include not depending on frames then. End of argument.

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The distinction between a java applet and an application	1	Jan 4, 2023
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Frames trouble

Isofarro

Paul Weikel

Michael Weber

Els

Michael Weber

Els

Whitecrest

Whitecrest

Isofarro

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