How important is architecture to C developers?

[Nick Keighley]

Not, I thought, the dynamic scheme that was proposed.  I though that was
explicitly covered and it was imposing such a limit that made you
conclude the two schemes were very similar in the first place.  It
seemed like you were making a new argument for why the dynamic scheme
was not workable.

yes he can't have it both ways. C provides primitives to allow you to
implement dynamically expanding memory (see malloc, realloc). C++
provides you with ready made classes (string, vector) to do the same
thing.

I think there is a difference in approach between C and C++
developers. Perhaps the very explicitness of C code makes programmers
more likely to choose static rather than dynamic solutions.

 

[Ian Collins]

col... coll... cologne.
nope, apparently not...

actually, partly it may be that the term "colleagues" is more commonly
associated with things like academic positions (college professors, ...)
and research-scientists.

the term "co-workers" (or team-members, teammates, ...) then is more
typically used for reference to ordinary professions.

Not in my parts of the world. I've only heard the dreaded "co-workers"
creeping in in recent years.

 

[Nick Keighley]

a lot of this sounds like people dealing with some sort of xNTJ types...

National Tax Journal? Not Terribly Jolly? Non-Terrestrial
Juristiction?

I'm guessing he works with psychopaths

<snip>

 

[Nick Keighley]

Not in my parts of the world.  I've only heard the dreaded "co-workers"
creeping in in recent years.

cow-orkers in Dilbert

 

[BGB]

Not in my parts of the world. I've only heard the dreaded "co-workers"
creeping in in recent years.

dunno, I have generally always heard co-workers.

for the most part, I have been living in the western part of the US
(such as Nevada and Arizona), except for some time living on Guam.

but, IME, it has been as-stated:
"colleagues" is usually for academics and scientists;
"co-workers" is for most everyone else.

typically, academics and industry are regarded as separate and
unrelated, only really so much related as many jobs expect people to
have college degrees and similar...


or such...

 

[James Kuyper]

National Tax Journal? Not Terribly Jolly? Non-Terrestrial
Juristiction?

He's referring to Myers Briggs personality type classifications.
<http://www.myersbriggs.org/>

 

[Bill Reid]

Why?  Everyone I work with is always open to hearing suggestions; if the
suggestions are rejected, it is usually because I didn't understand the
full context of what they were doing.

Heh. In my experience, the majority (I'm struggling mightily not
to say all) of "suggestions" are completely self-serving...

One time, this company I was working for was not doing well,
because of a failure of management (which is always the case),
and just to make the point crystal-clear the CEO rented out
a movie theater one morning and had everybody in the company
above the rank of janitor (they actually should have included
the janitors) meet there to make "suggestions" on how to
get the company profitable and growing again.

So after this idiot blathers on for a while about how the
people in the room had this tremendous collective experience
and wisdom that would allow them to set critical business
goals for the company, he opened the floor for "suggestions".
So one of our fine engineering managers stands up and says:

"I don't think the coffee in the break rooms is very good.
I know the engineers in my group would be more productive
if they had premium brand-name coffee, like Peet's or
something."

There was a murmur in the theater as 200 engineers
nodded in agreement, while the moron CEO actually wrote
down the "suggestion", instead of doing what he should
have done, which is pulling out a gun and shooting her.

But he should have known better. A few months earlier
he kind of tried the same thing in a smaller setting with
a few key managers in the company. After asking the
group what they thought were the problems facing the
company, another fine engineering manager said:

"The problem is that this company is becoming seen
as a 'sweat-shop' by the engineering community. I
mean all we do is write drivers for all these networking
cards and we don't get to perform any high-level
system architecture, so we're bored and frustrated."

Aside from the obvious, there were a couple more
things wrong with that: 1) that's what the software
engineering requirements were in that company in
that market and 2) they were the most ridiculously
incompetent driver writers imaginable, in one case
it took a parade of software "engineers" FIVE
FRICKIN' YEARS to NOT write an Ethernet driver,
they finally had to bring in an actual programmer
(a friend of mine) to finally do it in five weeks.

So anyway, a couple weeks later we got the
good coffee in the break rooms, and I have to
say it was quite tasty and very eyeball-bulging
good. Now he had said that he would read a special
email address for further suggestions, so I
wrote about a five page proposal for somewhat
modifying our products and marketing strategy
to exploit what I saw as an emerging multi-$billion
market.

Got an almost immediate reply from him: "That's
not the product direction that we have in place
so we won't be going in that direction."

BRILLIANT!!! Needless to say, with leadership
like that, the company went bust, and many many
$billions were made by other companies exploiting
the market I suggested...but at least I got some
good free coffee there before I moved on to my
next idiotic company...

I strive to always be polite, fact-based, respectful and sincere.  That
you think this means one has to "tread carefully" gives us insight into
your true personality and character.

The fact that you can't read simple English gives us insight into
your job skills...

That depends on what his assigned tasks were.

The fact that you couldn't comprehend what his assigned tasks
were even though he specifically stated them in the original
post gives us insight into your job skills...and like your
other failures to read simple English gives us insight into
what you would LIKE life to be, much like a Rorsharch (sp?)
test...

I've learned the hard way that, if I feel the need to wait until asked,
I should start looking for another job.

Ever complain about the coffee at work or being in
a 'sweat-shop'? Tell the truth...

You take career advice from a cartoon?

It's funny cuz it's true...

Considering Homer's boss and Homer's gross incompetence at just about
everything he attempts, that would probably be the best course of action
_for him_.  Hopefully, though, your situation is quite different and
therefore a different course of action would be best.

You know, realistically, we all have a little "Homer Simpson"
in all of us, and if you think otherwise, you may lack a critical
personality component to effectively work with others...

Someone who believes they always know better than everyone else will, if
a subordinate, feel no need to follow an "inferior" manager's rules and,
if a manger, feel no need to listen to their "inferior" subordinates.

I have no desire to work for such a person nor have such a person
working for me.

EXACTLY! That's all I've ever said here...so why all the hate?
Why did the OP, who clearly thinks he knows better than everyone
else at his job, tell me he has diagnosed me (as a "layman",
BWHAHAHAHA!!!) with a serious unspecified mental illness?

 

[BGB]

He's referring to Myers Briggs personality type classifications.
<http://www.myersbriggs.org/>

yep...


now, very coarse stereotypes (lumping I/E together, as often behavior is
similar between them, mostly differing in degree):

xNTJ:
often authority crazed (and don't like "back-talk"), often jerks, may
break rules/laws which hinder their personal gain. all this more so with
ENTJ (who may be all "up in your face" about it), an INTJ being more
likely to read lots of fiction and then look down on whoever has
different views/beliefs (such as the "arrogant atheist" stereotype, ...).

xSTJ: rule-crazed (everything "by the book"). can also be jerks, but
only so much as the rules/laws/... allow, ... they will look down on
those who don't accept/follow the same rules as themselves.

xNTP:
often more theoretically minded, tending towards intellectual activities
(such as doing math). more likely to disregard rules (often seeing them
as relative). may often tend to disregard "reality", and may take humor
in trolling people or acting like a clown. may often speculate more
about doing work than actually doing so (twiddling away lots of time
trying to figure out "the best way to go about doing the project" but
never getting around to it).

xSTP:
generally more "oh f*** it, lets try to get some work done" (but may
also procrastinate, usually more like "well I could do it, but it looks
like effort..."). so the project will often get done, all at once, at
the last minute. will tend not to care so much about rules or theory,
just so long as stuff can be made to work ("I have no idea why or how
this pile of crap works, but good enough..."). OTOH, they may get really
into debugging or performance-tuning things.


and, for the feeler types (for completeness):
xNFJ: may be really big about making everything look nice/elegant/...
and get caught up about things being "proper" and "dignified", ...

xSFJ: lots of traditions, and people being expected to follow them, "you
can't have Christmas without the tree", and may get really stubborn over
all this.

xNFP: trying to analyze/understand/... peoples' feelings, and acting
like clowns. concerned with everyone having a good time, but may annoy
people with their clownishness and-or emotional prodding.

xSFP: mostly about being expressive and artsy. don't care about rules or
much else, and may act mostly on whim and impulse, and wherever the
aesthetics lead, but still worry about peoples' feelings or perceptions
of them...


or such...

 

[Stephen Sprunk]

Nah, I've been asked to illegally falsify company records,
completely illegally, several times, and those orders came
from right on top (or at least so I believe, I know they came
from the "director" level for a fact, and I'm sure the VPs
were well aware of it). Generally, this was unlawful or
illegal time card fraud.

I friend of mine was once fired for falsifying timecards as ordered by
his manager. It was the best thing that ever happened to him; he now
works for a great company with ethical managers doing what he loves
_and_ making significantly better money. If he had known how much
better it could be, he would have resigned years earlier.

Sooooo...dunno why we have such differing
work experiences, but there it is...

I suspect it is because you tolerate working for such people.

S

 

[jacob navia]

Le 05/10/11 09:14, Nick Keighley a écrit :

yes he can't have it both ways. C provides primitives to allow you to
implement dynamically expanding memory (see malloc, realloc). C++
provides you with ready made classes (string, vector) to do the same
thing.

C provides the same functionality with the C containers library.
http://code.google.com/p/ccl/

I think there is a difference in approach between C and C++
developers. Perhaps the very explicitness of C code makes programmers
more likely to choose static rather than dynamic solutions.

The problem is that existing utilities and solutions are rejected by a
vocal minority of people like many in this group (kiki et al) that want
to keep the language at the development level of 1989.

Then, they say that C doesn't provide primitives fcor doing that even if
it is patently false.

 

[Bill Reid]

I friend of mine was once fired for falsifying timecards as ordered by
his manager.  It was the best thing that ever happened to him; he now
works for a great company with ethical managers doing what he loves
_and_ making significantly better money.  If he had known how much
better it could be, he would have resigned years earlier.


I suspect it is because you tolerate working for such people.

Well, me and hundreds of others...

But as I mentioned, one of the most fraudulent companies
I ever worked for is in the top ten of market capitalization
on NASDAQ. They went public when I was working there;
just about everybody above the rank of janitor had option
grants that made them instant $millionaires, if they didn't
do something stupid with their options given the clear
indicators of an impending market crash at the time, though
I'm sure many did (couldn't happen to nicer bunch of
psychopaths)...

But it's kinda true, I coulda made a HELL of lot more
money at another company that offered me a job the same
week I accepted the offer from Fraudco(TM). MUCH bigger
option grant, MUCH better option price, properly excercised
it would have been worth about $10million in less than
two years, AND they offered me more salary even after
considering the quarterly performance bonus I negotiated
with Fraudco(TM)...and this other company was totally
clean, they made their money by inventing a high-tech
"mousetrap" that was as much as 100 times faster than
the competition, which at that time WAS the biggest
market cap company in the world...

Of course I didn't turn the job down for financial
reasons, I turned it down because I wanted to work
with different technology, soooo...maybe that's the
real lesson here: DON'T BE SOME KIND OF TECHNICAL
PRIMA DONNA, JUST TAKE THE BIGGEST PAYCHECK AND
KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT, YOU MORON!!!

 

[Nick Keighley]

Le 05/10/11 09:14, Nick Keighley a écrit :




C provides the same functionality with the C containers library.http://code.google.com/p/ccl/


The problem is that existing utilities and solutions are rejected by a
vocal minority of people like many in this group (kiki et al) that want
to keep the language at the development level of 1989.

Then, they say that C doesn't provide primitives fcor doing that even if
it is patently false.

you become tedious. I also think you're lieing, when exactly did
keith(?) (you do know it's childish to make up rude names for people?)
or any over the other people you claim belong to this clique ever
suggest that C lacked the primitives to do anything?