how to capture locally, the data content of an HTM form?

[Jonathan N. Little]

Sorry, it works here without installing locally a mailserver.
Here is an extract of my php.ini file:

[mail function]
; For Win32 only.
; was SMTP = localhost
SMTP = smtp.scarlet.be
; was smtp_port = 25
smtp_port = 25

Scarlet is my ISP and he will not allow that we use a mailserver nor
an ftpserver on our pc.

This very brief note is very interesting.
I interpret (hopefully, and at least in Windows) that Raymond is
stating that one can redirect the local mail output function process
to a local port.
But the SMTP shown seems to be a server in Belgium, not a local
folder, and I'm sure more changes are needed in the TCP/IP protocol
manager, and also how the local port use can be implemented to store
to disc.
Or was this NOT the idea?

Raymond is running w webserver with PHP, that is the setting for PHP to
relay email to his ISP's mailserver. Your stipulation was there was to
be no servers installed locally just plain HTML off of the local
filesystem.

 

[Terence]

On Nov 26, 7:22 pm, (e-mail address removed) (Raymond Schmit) wrote:

Sorry, it works here without installing locally a mailserver.
Here is an extract of my php.ini file:
[mail function]
; For Win32 only.
; was SMTP = localhost
SMTP = smtp.scarlet.be
; was smtp_port = 25
smtp_port = 25
Scarlet is my ISP and he will not allow that we use a mailserver nor
an ftpserver on our pc.

This very brief note is very interesting.
I interpret (hopefully, and at least in Windows) that Raymond is
stating that one can redirect the local mail output function process
to a local port.
But the SMTP shown seems to be a server in Belgium, not a local
folder, and I'm sure more changes are needed in the TCP/IP protocol
manager, and also how the local port use can be implemented to store
to disc.
Or was this NOT the idea?

Raymond is running w webserver with PHP, that is the setting for PHP to
relay email to his ISP's mailserver. Your stipulation was there was to
be no servers installed locally just plain HTML off of the local
filesystem.

No, NO and NO!

My stipulation was that there was no need for a server on the Internet
to be presenting the form to the general public in any way, to invite
filling and correction and hence data capture.

My two case were (restating):-
A) persons to whom an e-mail was sent to, to complete an attached
form and have the e-mail service send back data. (Either we GET a
reply or we DON'T; and if WE DON't, we can ask why not. There is no
important uncertainty )

B) computer data-entry staff doing data entry via THE SAME FORM format
(a copy) and having data stored locally so that the same form data
processing is applied to both data origins (A and B).
This data-entry computer can be off-line for ever but needs an
emulator to catch the pseudo e-mailed data attachment and store it in
some "\attach" folder (for compatibility of file structure names)..

At least one other computer would be on-line to send e-mailed forms
and pick up e-mailed data, for case A.

I agreed with two posters that a solution might be a do-little-or-
nothing web server emulator on each of the not-even-connected-to-the-
internet computers that were being used for the data entry.

This is a common Market Research requirement. I've been in the
business since 1972 and used the e-mailed form approach at least 10
years..

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

On Nov 26, 7:22 pm, (e-mail address removed) (Raymond Schmit) wrote:

Sorry, it works here without installing locally a mailserver.
Here is an extract of my php.ini file:

[mail function]
; For Win32 only.
; was SMTP = localhost
SMTP = smtp.scarlet.be
; was smtp_port = 25
smtp_port = 25

Scarlet is my ISP and he will not allow that we use a mailserver nor
an ftpserver on our pc.

This very brief note is very interesting.
I interpret (hopefully, and at least in Windows) that Raymond is
stating that one can redirect the local mail output function process
to a local port.
But the SMTP shown seems to be a server in Belgium, not a local
folder, and I'm sure more changes are needed in the TCP/IP protocol
manager, and also how the local port use can be implemented to store
to disc.
Or was this NOT the idea?

Raymond is running w webserver with PHP, that is the setting for PHP to
relay email to his ISP's mailserver. Your stipulation was there was to
be no servers installed locally just plain HTML off of the local
filesystem.

No, NO and NO!

Apparently your not listening, what Raymond is doing requires a
webserver which per your criteria is NOT applicable, and NOT "very
interesting"

My stipulation was that there was no need for a server on the Internet
to be presenting the form to the general public in any way, to invite
filling and correction and hence data capture.

My two case were (restating):-
A) persons to whom an e-mail was sent to, to complete an attached
form and have the e-mail service send back data. (Either we GET a
reply or we DON'T; and if WE DON't, we can ask why not. There is no
important uncertainty )

B) computer data-entry staff doing data entry via THE SAME FORM format
(a copy) and having data stored locally so that the same form data
processing is applied to both data origins (A and B).
This data-entry computer can be off-line for ever but needs an
emulator to catch the pseudo e-mailed data attachment and store it in
some "\attach" folder (for compatibility of file structure names)..

At least one other computer would be on-line to send e-mailed forms
and pick up e-mailed data, for case A.

I agreed with two posters that a solution might be a do-little-or-
nothing web server emulator on each of the not-even-connected-to-the-
internet computers that were being used for the data entry.

This is a common Market Research requirement. I've been in the
business since 1972 and used the e-mailed form approach at least 10
years..

And what I have been trying to tell you is A) You cannot read or write
to the local filesystem via the browser or email client with pure HTML
form. and B) You can have a email account WITHOUT and email client
program, i.e., web mail only, were the mailto: action will fail. 10
years ago fewer people had web mail only...

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

My two case were (restating):-
A) persons to whom an e-mail was sent to, to complete an attached
form and have the e-mail service send back data. (Either we GET a
reply or we DON'T; and if WE DON't, we can ask why not. There is no
important uncertainty )

This is a common Market Research requirement. I've been in the
business since 1972 and used the e-mailed form approach at least 10
years..

Lastly: if said HTML form is sent via email and the user just happens to
have an email client like Thunderbird, in order for the form field data
to aggregated onto the body of the return email it would require
JavaScript be emailed.

JavaScript *disabled by default* in email clients, even is M$'s Outlook
and OutlookExpress. It is a very different Web these days. Anyone who
would enable JavaScript in their email client is either insane,
incredibly naive, intellectually challenged, or all of the above. One
thing would be for certain, they'd be *pwned*

So I will stand by my assertion that your only real viable option is to
send you clients emails with a link to your survey form that is properly
processed on an online server. That way you can handle and process the
data anyway you wish regardless of clients' local machine software, OS,
or configuration.

 

[Raymond Schmit]

Terence wrote:
On Nov 26, 7:22 pm, (e-mail address removed) (Raymond Schmit) wrote:

Sorry, it works here without installing locally a mailserver.
Here is an extract of my php.ini file:

[mail function]
; For Win32 only.
; was SMTP = localhost
SMTP = smtp.scarlet.be
; was smtp_port = 25
smtp_port = 25

Scarlet is my ISP and he will not allow that we use a mailserver nor
an ftpserver on our pc.

This very brief note is very interesting.
I interpret (hopefully, and at least in Windows) that Raymond is
stating that one can redirect the local mail output function process
to a local port.
But the SMTP shown seems to be a server in Belgium, not a local
folder, and I'm sure more changes are needed in the TCP/IP protocol
manager, and also how the local port use can be implemented to store
to disc.
Or was this NOT the idea?

Raymond is running w webserver with PHP, that is the setting for PHP to
relay email to his ISP's mailserver. Your stipulation was there was to
be no servers installed locally just plain HTML off of the local
filesystem.

No, NO and NO!

Apparently your not listening, what Raymond is doing requires a
webserver which per your criteria is NOT applicable, and NOT "very
interesting"

I give-up .... he did not want a viable/good solution, he is expecting
some miracle

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

I give-up .... he did not want a viable/good solution, he is expecting
some miracle

You are sooooo right there!

 

[Terence]

So I will stand by my assertion that your only real viable option is to
send you clients emails with a link to your survey form that is properly
processed on an online server. That way you can handle and process the
data anyway you wish regardless of clients' local machine software, OS,
or configuration.

That may turn out to be true form case "B" (by setting up an in-house-
only web). Case "A" will alsways be with us for the allowed
situations.
But again: neither I nor my company sends e-mailable forms to our
clients. We are a software company and it is OUR CLIENTS who send e-
mails to THEIR respondents, using OUR software, which we want to
update.

HTML form print-outs are often also used as OMR documents (the
difference is the presence or not of a timing track on either edges of
the paper pages. To HTML readers of the electronic media, this is just
decoration. OMR readers can cost $10k to $20k and need service
agreements, so many countries find manual data-entry is more economic.
Hence the interest in the ability to choose to data-enter the form
rather than automatically read them.

Further, some agreements between researchers and THEIR clients require
that no forms, data or paper ever leave the offices of the researcher
(and NOT to be exposed on the web). Examples: general election
tracking; new product testing; health-related documents. Note, the use
of CAPI, in-house, by the actual respondent is yet another case of the
no-on-web form filling of the "B" circumstances..

So, both we AND our clients are interested in the local use of any
HTML-type or related form which can be filled in locally and NOT be
exposed on the Web just to be able to get the data back to the same
(expletive) computer.

I still think that a browser should, IN OFFLINE MODE. be able to store
locally.
After all, that's exactly what our browsers do when we "open" an HTML
script for editing, testing and re-writing HTML forms.

So why can't the "test" of the HTML form also store the data loacally
if off-line?

What Raymond suggested may still be valid under the right
circumstances (local web).

 

[Terence]

I give-up .... he did not want a viable/good solution, he is expecting
some miracle

No. I already found how to store data locally in on-line mode using
java script.
It's not an alternative that I like.

The problem is now finding how to easily insert a general-case java-
based form-parsing routine into any form to be used for local data
entry.

I was hoping to find how to sent options or traps to cause the memory-
queued form output to be re-directed to the local disk .

And while on the subject, some browsers don't send a dummy message
with a data file attached, but stick the coded data in the body of the
otherwise dummy message itself.
This is easily dealt with by the same parser that we use which sweeps
up messages and attachments form the In-box and .\attach file areas.
..

 

[Terence]

(etc)

P.S. We DO know how to write web-based java-scripted form-parsing code
since there are 3 forms on our own web-site to handle different levels
of enquiries and get the data back to us.
But that method is NOT what some of our clients need, but something
more private and more flexible and LOCAL.
The others are quite happy thank you.