most software jobs are software maintenance rather than new development?

[Roedy Green]

Once you have enough of a grasp on these, then moving to unknown
languages is trivial.

the more languages you know, the faster you can pick up on a new one.
All you need to focus on are the surface syntax differences and the
totally unique features.

On the other paw, I had more trouble with Java than I should have
mainly because I kept expecting it to be the same as C++ because it
superficially looked so similar.

 

[Flash Gordon]

Sure, if you're working in Germany your English does not have
to be good. If you're working in the USA (or UK or Oz) it
should be.

Yes, and the last time I checked the only one of those three that was
not outside the USA is the USA.

 

[Roedy Green]

what is what, in my definition?

Who's on first? It sounded to me you were trashing the only
definition given of pair programming a while back. On digging through
the threads I discover that it was your definition, so it is unlikely
you were baldly berating yourself for being wrong without offering an
alternate definition.

In my own post I was talking about an alternative way to teach
programming, nothing to do with pair programming other than it
involves two people sitting at the same computer.

 

[N. B. (substitute bay for gulf to e-mail)]

? remember where the language came from!

Ian

What does speaking English well have to do with Germany?

 

[Andrew McDonagh]

Who's on first? It sounded to me you were trashing the only
definition given of pair programming a while back. On digging through
the threads I discover that it was your definition, so it is unlikely
you were baldly berating yourself for being wrong without offering an
alternate definition.

In my own post I was talking about an alternative way to teach
programming, nothing to do with pair programming other than it
involves two people sitting at the same computer.

right now I understand your comment....

its certainly one way for a new person to learn - *I* doubt its very
effective.

 

[Andrew McDonagh]

I believe he means:
What is PairProgramming in your definition?

Well, the small paragraph I posted describing how *my Team* actually do
Pair Programming is pretty much how I'd define PP. Though there is more
to it than that.

As for a more accepted definition...

"Two programmers working side-by-side, collaborating on the same design,
algorithm, code or test. One programmer, the driver, has control of the
keyboard/mouse and actively implements the program. The other
programmer, the observer, continuously observes the work of the driver
to identify tactical (syntactic, spelling, etc.) defects and also thinks
strategically about the direction of the work. On demand, the two
programmers can brainstorm any challenging problem.

Because the two programmers *periodically switch roles*, they work
together as equals to develop software."

-- Laurie Williams
North Carolina State University Computer Science

 

[Roedy Green]

its certainly one way for a new person to learn - *I* doubt its very
effective.

Since you have never experimented with the technique, you should know.

 

[Andrew McDonagh]

On the other hand, cleaning up code from incompetents will rapidly
teach you all the things not to do. I took out much of my frustration
from such jobs writing the most popular essay of my lifetime:
http://mindprod.com/jgloss/unmain.html with almost a million hits on
it now.

It hit a nerve.

Yes, for us programmers - that essay is one of the funniest - well done
Roedy

 

[Chris Uppal]

As for a more accepted definition [of Pair Programming]...
[snipped]

Which does not, in fact, resemble what Roedy described at all. I'm puzzled by
why you thought there was a connection ?

-- chris

 

[Andrew McDonagh]

Andrew McDonagh wrote:

As for a more accepted definition [of Pair Programming]...
[snipped]

Which does not, in fact, resemble what Roedy described at all. I'm puzzled by
why you thought there was a connection ?

-- chris

I was puzzled by Roedy's description because I 'Thought' he was trying
to describe what Pair Programming (as in the snipped definition) means
to him.

Thats all - we are talking across each other..about different things
that 'Just Happen To use two people working together in some form'

Andrew

 

[Goran Sliskovic]

Roedy Green wrote: .... ....
Yes, for us programmers - that essay is one of the funniest - well done
Roedy

It looks that it's not funny for everybody. I have to maintain 350 kloc
project done by programmers who thought it was study book... However, I
must admit that I have learned a lot about programming from that. Also,
being the one who managed to control that chaos had some good consequences
(financial and in little privileges such as *very* flexible working hours,
days off etc..). So it levels it fine.

Goran

 

[pauldepstein]

You're referring to "my standpoint is that even I don't know Java well,
I still can do the work."

I didn't read that the way you did. I read it that even someone who
didn't know much about Java could still do the work that he's currently
being assigned, that the work isn't challenging.

-- Daniel

Well, I found the original posting very offensive, and I agree 100%
with those who replied with personal criticisms of the poster and
called the OP "self-centred" etc.

The original posting was _wildly_ OT for this _c++ language_ newsgroup.
And it's incredibly pompous of this individual (the OP) to assume not
only the right to employment, but the right to be intellectually
challenged by the work. I'm sure there are some people who earn a
living as janitors who are more intelligent and better-educated than
the OP.

Paul Epstein

 

[Chris Uppal]

And it's incredibly pompous of this individual (the OP) to assume not
only the right to employment, but the right to be intellectually
challenged by the work. I'm sure there are some people who earn a
living as janitors who are more intelligent and better-educated than
the OP.

Do you really mean that no one has the right to be dissatisfied with their lot
if there is someone else who is in an even worse position ? If so then at
most one person in the world at any one time is entitled to be disgruntled...

-- chris

 

[Daniel Parker]

From my point of view there is no difference between maintenance and
new development except, perhaps, for level of intensity. As soon as
the first line of code is written on a project, the project is in
maintenance; or so it seems to me.

Yeah, well let's say you were about to join Chrysler in 1995 or thereabouts,
and were given a choice of two projects: a maintenance role on the existing
payroll system, or a spot on Kent Becks's C3 project? Which would you have
gone for? Decisions, decisions...

Regards,
Daniel Parker

 

[Chris Smith]

It looks that it's not funny for everybody. I have to maintain 350 kloc
project done by programmers who thought it was study book...

I don't find that very believable. If you're maintaining 350,000 lines
of code written by someone who's too dumb to understand the point of
Roedy's essay, then you'd have serious problems whether Roedy had
written that essay or not!

--
www.designacourse.com
The Easiest Way To Train Anyone... Anywhere.

Chris Smith - Lead Software Developer/Technical Trainer
MindIQ Corporation

 

[Branimir Maksimovic]

This topic should apply to software jobs regardless of the programming
languages.

I want to know if most of the software jobs in the market are software
maintenance (fix bugs, new feature enhancements on existing code)
rather than new developments (from scratch).

Developement from scratch assumes writing a new framework.
After framework is done all other work can be considered as maintenance.
Lot of projects start within a code framework, so many jobs are maintenance
buy your thinking. There is no such thing as development from scratch
any more, at least from begining of time when libraries are invented

This is my first job as a

Java programmer, but I really don't see I do much Java development, all
I do is to fix bugs, and add some new features for new builds. Well, of
course I need to understand the logic of existing code, but my
standpoint is that even I don't know Java well, I still can do the
work.

Learn first, then they will assign you more challenging tasks probably.
What you would do if they assign you a task you couldn't accomplish?

Greetings, Bane.

 

[Bradley K. Sherman]

Yes, and the last time I checked the only one of those three that was
not outside the USA is the USA.

Noted!

--bks

 

[Goran Sliskovic]

I don't find that very believable. If you're maintaining 350,000 lines
of code written by someone who's too dumb to understand the point of
Roedy's essay, then you'd have serious problems whether Roedy had
written that essay or not!

It was a sarcasm (which implies great sorrow and pain it has done to me).
Though code does exactly what essay says, so I wonder sometimes...

Regards,
Goran

 

[Andrew Thompson]

What you would do if they assign you a task you couldn't accomplish?

That's a no brainer.

Come onto the usenet newsgroups, pretending you are
describing the most arcane of computational problems,
that 'myself and my colleagues' had been 'kicking around'
and were 'inviting further ideas'.

Then add that you don't want to hear from anyone that has
not 'implemented these ideas - no time wasters, please'.

Then close with 'reply by email' & 'Urgently', to convince
them you are busy.

 

[Andrew McDonagh]

Developement from scratch assumes writing a new framework.

Does it?

Not on my teams - we certainly let frameworks emerge over time through
refactorings, but we certainly don't start off developing them.

It can and sadly does happen on the majority of teams - but its not a
good thing - Running Tested Features released often and early is much
more preferable to customers than Frameworks - RTFs have business value