L
Lothar Scholz
Ulrich Petri said:
But not easy to use and with a lot of bugs. Maybe some less features
and more stability would be nice.
And it is not complete if you want to program Web Applications.
But not easy to use and with a lot of bugs. Maybe some less features
and more stability would be nice.
And it is not complete if you want to program Web Applications.
M
Mike Thompson
Gerhard Häring said:
That's not my experience. I've found Boa both stable, functional and well
priced.
I tried Wing and generally liked it, except that I'm used to an editor with
tabs for each open file and I found Wing's "one file at a time arrangement"
didn't match my way of working.
I tried Komodo, which has an enormous feature set that goes well beyond python,
which I liked until I came to run my first wxPython based program under the
debugger and it froze. I never did get to the bottom of why.
In between all this I attempted to use Eric but had difficulty getting it
setup. From memory, after some googling around, I found a few similar reports
and abandoned the effort.
I then tried Boa and haven't moved since.
My search has occurred over the last six months. About twelve months ago I also
tried the Secret Labs IDE (can't remember the name) which I found a bit of work
initially, but ended up quite liking. However this product now seems to have
been withdrawn from the market.
If you have to restrict it to 3, my suggestion would be:
Wing
Boa
IDLE
That would give you a mix of commerical and free. All are cross-platform.
If not IDLE, then Komodo which has a very inexpensive licence for personal
use..
S
smarter_than_you
Another shout-out for Pythoncard. It's at an early stage but I
_really_ like the design philosophy. The code editor is nice (Boa
might have a slight advantage here, but it's definitely usable). The
GUI constructor is the best I've seen, and I've been shopping for a
useful builder for a while.
Best of all, unlike Boa, the code it generates is clean and well laid
out, with a .rsrc.py file that is just a little list of dicts with
parameters for all your widgets.
YMMV
_really_ like the design philosophy. The code editor is nice (Boa
might have a slight advantage here, but it's definitely usable). The
GUI constructor is the best I've seen, and I've been shopping for a
useful builder for a while.
Best of all, unlike Boa, the code it generates is clean and well laid
out, with a .rsrc.py file that is just a little list of dicts with
parameters for all your widgets.
YMMV
G
Gerrit van Dyk
Just my 2 cents worth:
Xemacs/Emacs with python-mode bindings + pychecker and some screen editor
for gui apps (wxDesigner/Boa for wxPython,BlackAdder/Qt Designer for Qt
etc)
Regards
Gerrit
Xemacs/Emacs with python-mode bindings + pychecker and some screen editor
for gui apps (wxDesigner/Boa for wxPython,BlackAdder/Qt Designer for Qt
etc)
Regards
Gerrit
K
Kevin Altis
David Mertz said:Pythonistas,
My loyal fanswill remember that I did a Python IDE roundup for
_Charming Python_ a couple years back. Now I have another such roundup
lined up... not the very next article, but it's there on the list.
In the intervening years, I've hardly touched anything one might call an
IDE. I've looked at screenshots from time to time, and read various
announcements. But really I just use text editors and command lines.
Here's the thing: I probably have room to look at about four different
tools in one article. In fact, it wouldn't be absurd to only do three.
Past that, I cannot do more than list contact information and platform
in the available words. I'm sure there are more than four IDEs that
-someone- loves to work with out there... but I need to have a cutoff.
So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).
Yours, David...
So, I guess the key question is what features are required to be considered
an IDE? If you're simply talking about an editor with an integrated debugger
then there is a lot to choose from and certainly IDLE (formerly IDLEfork
should be included) just for completeness. Based on the responses to c.l.py
a lot of people seem to think vim and Emacs qualify as IDEs, but those would
probably be best covered in their own articles. Just out of curiosity, I
checked the "definition" of an IDE.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=interactive development environ
ment
One thing I've found quite interesting about Python is that when I started
using it I was disappointed in the debugger support, since I was used to
more elaborate systems from my compiled language days. There is also the pro
blem that many Python editors/IDEs including the old IDLE couldn't debug GUI
code if the IDE used a different toolkit than your app (tkinter, win32,
wxPython, Qt, etc.) Then I realized that at least for the kind of GUI work I
do the debugger fell into the YAGNI category and I end up doing most of my
exploration in the shell at runtime or using print or log statements for
other bits. It will be interesting to see whether the ability to set
breakpoints and do other debugger sorts of things becomes more important to
me in the future.
Some people seem to think an IDE means integrated layout capabilities. That
would narrow the field considerably. Boa should be considered in your
selections regardless of whether its wxPython GUI capabilities are needed.
PythonCard, at least in its current form doesn't really qualify as an IDE
since the codeEditor is just a source editor, it doesn't have a debugger and
it is not integrated with the resourceEditor which handles layouts. A future
version will have a more integrated environment.
ka
A
Alan James Salmoni
Gerhard,
Do'h! Sincerest apologies. I'll report to the torture chamber for
immediate privation. I won't be allowed to use Python for a whole
week...
Alan.
Do'h! Sincerest apologies. I'll report to the torture chamber for
immediate privation. I won't be allowed to use Python for a whole
week...
Alan.
Gerhard Häring said:
L
Larry
David said:Pythonistas,
My loyal fans
_Charming Python_ a couple years back. Now I have another such roundup
lined up... not the very next article, but it's there on the list.
In the intervening years, I've hardly touched anything one might call an
IDE. I've looked at screenshots from time to time, and read various
announcements. But really I just use text editors and command lines.
Here's the thing: I probably have room to look at about four different
tools in one article. In fact, it wouldn't be absurd to only do three.
Past that, I cannot do more than list contact information and platform
in the available words. I'm sure there are more than four IDEs that
-someone- loves to work with out there... but I need to have a cutoff.
So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).
Yours, David...
There is a brand new version of BlackAdder available from theKompany.com
that is quite impressive.
http://www.thekompany.com/products/blackadder/
Screenshots here....
http://www.thekompany.com/products/blackadder/screenshots.php3
H
Hardy Jonck
I recently had a look at Jedit and must say I am impressed. Python
support via Jython 2.1 - but the extensibility and philosophy that
comes with Jedit is amazing. Would be nice to have more development in
it to make it an even better Python editor that it is now. It has
advanced features, very good code folding, excellent searching, class
browser, integration with Ctags that works great with Python, regular
expression cross project search and replace, sftp, ftp, CVS
integration (GREAT) and integrated DIFF, XML and XPATH, and tons of
other very handy plugins to do 100% hands off mouseless efficient
editing.
Have a look at www.jedit.org and install version 4.1 stable. Install
Jython from the plugins directory and make shure to set the prefrences
so that it pre-loads Jython and classes. Then install Sidekick and
tags. Set Folding mode to Sodekick and that almost completes the
setup. Now install gruntspud from the plugins directory and you have
CVS with full integration into the editor.
Only thing missing is full code completion like PythonWIn offers...
Sincerely,
Hardy Jonck
E
Etienne Labuschagne
1st, 2nd and 3rd Boa Constructor
I find this quite stable on Windows (latest version 0.2.3) and I find
the following it's best features:
o THE BEST Zope support for a free IDE - create Zope objects such as
Files, DTML Documents, Page Templates, etc. Debug Zope Python
Scripts, external methods, Zope itself, and to a limited extent, DTML
documents and Page Templates!
o Out of process debugger that can attach to remote Python processes
and debug Zope (THE best feature!), in multiple threads! Debugger can
be a bit tempremental, but it's very powerful (I have debugged
client's systems over the internet!)
o Multiple transports - edit files on the file system, through FTP,
Webdav, etc.
o Nice editor, with tabbed view of all open files, full Regular
expression search and replace functionality (over multiple files),
reindetation function, code and parameter completion, code highliting
and hyperlink-like "jump to declaration". Lots of other things not
mentioned here.
o wxPython GUI development (code generation, no XML)
There are some niggles, but personally I have found it quite stable
and VERY feature rich and probably the most feature rich environment
for Python and Zope. (I'm beginning to sound like a Zealot)
4th. PythonWin
A nice "side kick" to Boa for the very few things it does better than
Boa, has a nifty "Post mortem" debugger that breaks execution on an
exception (and rolls back to just before the exception).
I find this quite stable on Windows (latest version 0.2.3) and I find
the following it's best features:
o THE BEST Zope support for a free IDE - create Zope objects such as
Files, DTML Documents, Page Templates, etc. Debug Zope Python
Scripts, external methods, Zope itself, and to a limited extent, DTML
documents and Page Templates!
o Out of process debugger that can attach to remote Python processes
and debug Zope (THE best feature!), in multiple threads! Debugger can
be a bit tempremental, but it's very powerful (I have debugged
client's systems over the internet!)
o Multiple transports - edit files on the file system, through FTP,
Webdav, etc.
o Nice editor, with tabbed view of all open files, full Regular
expression search and replace functionality (over multiple files),
reindetation function, code and parameter completion, code highliting
and hyperlink-like "jump to declaration". Lots of other things not
mentioned here.
o wxPython GUI development (code generation, no XML)
There are some niggles, but personally I have found it quite stable
and VERY feature rich and probably the most feature rich environment
for Python and Zope. (I'm beginning to sound like a Zealot)
4th. PythonWin
A nice "side kick" to Boa for the very few things it does better than
Boa, has a nifty "Post mortem" debugger that breaks execution on an
exception (and rolls back to just before the exception).
P
Paul Reznicek
What is the better one for program Web Applications?
Paul
T
Tom Lee
I second that.
JEdit is fantastic.
No matter what language I use it for, it never goes against the grain of
my programming style.
However, it's particularly good for both Python, XML/HTML/CSS/etc. and
PHP. Java has Eclipse and NetBeans, C/C++ has MSVC/KDevelop/Anjuta
(although in Linux I use JEdit for C/C++ too!), but nothing compares to
JEdit for the previous languages.
Only complaint is the startup time - can be a painful wait at times, but
I love it all the same.
Folding, too, is brilliant. You have to try it to really appreciate it.
I recommend checking out the folding in 4.2pre4 - different colours for
different levels of nested folding.
- TL
JEdit is fantastic.
No matter what language I use it for, it never goes against the grain of
my programming style.
However, it's particularly good for both Python, XML/HTML/CSS/etc. and
PHP. Java has Eclipse and NetBeans, C/C++ has MSVC/KDevelop/Anjuta
(although in Linux I use JEdit for C/C++ too!), but nothing compares to
JEdit for the previous languages.
Only complaint is the startup time - can be a painful wait at times, but
I love it all the same.
Folding, too, is brilliant. You have to try it to really appreciate it.
I recommend checking out the folding in 4.2pre4 - different colours for
different levels of nested folding.
- TL
A
achrist
Tom said:
I found it very good, too. I was using it for a large project
in Python about 6 mos back, and despite the sluggish response on
my 200 MHz machine, I had it open on my desktop continuously for
a couple of weeks, with dozens of files open. But then it gave me
a bad crash -- I don't recall exactly what -- maybe a BSOD or a
JVM crash. That's not the kind of thing I enjoy, so I haven't
used it since.
Anyone else have trouble like that with jEdit?
Al
D
Don Rozenberg
Pythonistas,
My loyal fans
_Charming Python_ a couple years back. Now I have another such roundup
lined up... not the very next article, but it's there on the list.
In the intervening years, I've hardly touched anything one might call an
IDE. I've looked at screenshots from time to time, and read various
announcements. But really I just use text editors and command lines.
Here's the thing: I probably have room to look at about four different
tools in one article. In fact, it wouldn't be absurd to only do three.
Past that, I cannot do more than list contact information and platform
in the available words. I'm sure there are more than four IDEs that
-someone- loves to work with out there... but I need to have a cutoff.
So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).
Yours, David...
For a long time, I have been using emacs as my Python IDE and have
found that python-mode can be improved - see
http://page.sourceforge.net/py-mode-ext.html
for my version. Also a straight-forward way of using pdb under emacs,
can be found at http://page.sourceforge.net/tricks.html. These two
tweeks make a great difference for me.
Am happy to learn about ELSE from these postings, I will give it a try
immediately.
D
David Mertz
|JEdit is fantastic. No matter what language I use it for, it never
|goes against the grain of my programming style.
I wrote off-list to the OP:
As am I. jEdit is my editor on my PowerBook. Everything from my
articles and book, to Python, to XML, to C, to other languages. It's
not quite as fast as "native" code (at least on OSX1.2/Java1.4), but
it does have nicely configurable keystrokes. (I sometimes get
"freezeups" for a second or two, which interupt my workflow).
I confess that I've never really used the Jython feature, even though
I have it installed. I still write code in jEdit, but run it in
Terminal.
Maybe I will include it in my roundup; it's hard to say what counts as
an IDE, but jEdit is helpful in many ways.
FWIW, even though I think this thread is generally useful for c.l.py
readers, for my article specifically, I am unlikely to evaluate any
Windows products. I have one older Win98r2 laptop, but I haven't
touched it since tax time, and don't really like to touch Windows.
My main desktop is OS/2; I realize I won't find much for that, except
the Java tools. But my main laptop is a Mac, which is probably where
I'll test. However, I may decide to use my Linux or FreeBSD machines to
test specific tools, if needed. Still, I have been very pleased to find
that 95% of the Free Software tools that interest me compile fine on OSX
(while I avoid 90% of the configuration/dependency nightmares I've grown
to fear in Linux).
Yours, David...
--
mertz@ | The specter of free information is haunting the `Net! All the
gnosis | powers of IP- and crypto-tyranny have entered into an unholy
..cx | alliance...ideas have nothing to lose but their chains. Unite
| against "intellectual property" and anti-privacy regimes!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|goes against the grain of my programming style.
I wrote off-list to the OP:
As am I. jEdit is my editor on my PowerBook. Everything from my
articles and book, to Python, to XML, to C, to other languages. It's
not quite as fast as "native" code (at least on OSX1.2/Java1.4), but
it does have nicely configurable keystrokes. (I sometimes get
"freezeups" for a second or two, which interupt my workflow).
I confess that I've never really used the Jython feature, even though
I have it installed. I still write code in jEdit, but run it in
Terminal.
Maybe I will include it in my roundup; it's hard to say what counts as
an IDE, but jEdit is helpful in many ways.
FWIW, even though I think this thread is generally useful for c.l.py
readers, for my article specifically, I am unlikely to evaluate any
Windows products. I have one older Win98r2 laptop, but I haven't
touched it since tax time, and don't really like to touch Windows.
My main desktop is OS/2; I realize I won't find much for that, except
the Java tools. But my main laptop is a Mac, which is probably where
I'll test. However, I may decide to use my Linux or FreeBSD machines to
test specific tools, if needed. Still, I have been very pleased to find
that 95% of the Free Software tools that interest me compile fine on OSX
(while I avoid 90% of the configuration/dependency nightmares I've grown
to fear in Linux).
Yours, David...
--
mertz@ | The specter of free information is haunting the `Net! All the
gnosis | powers of IP- and crypto-tyranny have entered into an unholy
..cx | alliance...ideas have nothing to lose but their chains. Unite
| against "intellectual property" and anti-privacy regimes!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
F
F. GEIGER
Hi David,
1) WingIDE
2) Komodo
3) IDLE
And now for something completely different:
4) The really world's best outliner (man, I tried quite a few) and Literate
Programming Tool: Leo
Best regards
Franz GEIGER
P.S.: I've listed Leo as (4) because I do not use it for programming, but
others do, with great success by the way. I use it to organize my projects,
contacts, as calender, as - well, for each and everything. And thru its
Clone-feature everything is always just a click away from where I am in my
outlines. And it's scriptable and and and. In short: I organize myself with
Leo. I do this since April 2003, still with great pleasure. Using Leo is
like programming Python: Each day's a pleasure like the first day. So, would
you have asked for PIMs to be suggested I would have written
1) Leo
2) Leo
3) Leo
4) Leo
Sory, I'm getting OT now...
1) WingIDE
2) Komodo
3) IDLE
And now for something completely different:
4) The really world's best outliner (man, I tried quite a few) and Literate
Programming Tool: Leo
Best regards
Franz GEIGER
P.S.: I've listed Leo as (4) because I do not use it for programming, but
others do, with great success by the way. I use it to organize my projects,
contacts, as calender, as - well, for each and everything. And thru its
Clone-feature everything is always just a click away from where I am in my
outlines. And it's scriptable and and and. In short: I organize myself with
Leo. I do this since April 2003, still with great pleasure. Using Leo is
like programming Python: Each day's a pleasure like the first day. So, would
you have asked for PIMs to be suggested I would have written
1) Leo
2) Leo
3) Leo
4) Leo
Sory, I'm getting OT now...
J
John J. Lee
What platform was that (JVM, OS)?
John
A
achrist
John J. Lee said:
It was WinNT SP6 with java sdk 1.4101. I figured that I had given
jEdit and the JVM a fairly demanding test -- I don't have much idea
how you could write an app in any language that could manage resources
like memory without leaking or fragmenting at least a little once in a
while, and after a run of a few weeks, something demised.
It didn't really bother me much, but if it happened again, that would
have bothered me. As this thread has shown, there are plenty of
other options for python coders, so I moved on to try another. I see
that there is a bug-fix pre-release of jEdit now out. Maybe I'll
give that a try.
Al
R
Ruben Baumann
You should also update your JVM. As I understand it, Java 1.4101 had some
problems, and has been superceded by 1.4.2.
JFYI, I've used jEdit for a couple years now for various small projects, as
well as using it just to edit text. With the plug-ins, you can build an
editor that works the way you want it to. The Jython plug-in works great!
The last release of Java, 1.4 was also a speed enhancement release, so jEdit
is a little peppier.
HTH
Ruben
C
Corey Coughlin
As for me, I'm currently using Emacs, but I'd love to find a nice IDE.
I can't even use IDLE at work, sadly, some arcane problem with
upgrading Tcl/Tk on Solaris 5.3 machines, very annyoing. But
generally, it seems like it would be a little pointless to review
IDLE. Since it's included, everyone can try it at their leisure. The
same pretty much applies for X/Emacs, it's been around so long now
that by this time anyone who is going to try it is probably already
using it. Sure, have a paragraph about standard editing solutions and
mention them, but don't focus on them. I'd prefer to see some reviews
of the other, less standard editors out there, especially ones with
GUI editors, that sounds kind of cool. Emphasis on cross-platform
solutions would also be good, as I said I'm using Solaris here at
work, but Windows and Linux at home. I'd love to find a great editor
for all three environments. I look forward to seeing the article!
I can't even use IDLE at work, sadly, some arcane problem with
upgrading Tcl/Tk on Solaris 5.3 machines, very annyoing. But
generally, it seems like it would be a little pointless to review
IDLE. Since it's included, everyone can try it at their leisure. The
same pretty much applies for X/Emacs, it's been around so long now
that by this time anyone who is going to try it is probably already
using it. Sure, have a paragraph about standard editing solutions and
mention them, but don't focus on them. I'd prefer to see some reviews
of the other, less standard editors out there, especially ones with
GUI editors, that sounds kind of cool. Emphasis on cross-platform
solutions would also be good, as I said I'm using Solaris here at
work, but Windows and Linux at home. I'd love to find a great editor
for all three environments. I look forward to seeing the article!
R
Robin Siebler
I know you can't tell us when this article will appear, but could you
tell us where?
I am currently using PythonWin and would be curious to see what the
alternatives look like, especially Komodo, because it is the only
*reasonably* priced (for a personal license) commercial offering out
there.
I was reading through the thread and I tried to try a couple of the
items mentioned:
1. SPE - Neither of the download links at blender.projects.org
worked. I tried sending an e-mail to the author, but I haven't gotten
a response.
2. eric3 - I looked at it, but it has too many prerequistes! Just
trying to find the right (free) version of QT was a pain. I never was
able to get everything configured properly. If the software requires
specific software to work, I think the least the guy could do would be
to give the right links to the required software and maybe a few tips
for getting everything to work properly.
tell us where?
I am currently using PythonWin and would be curious to see what the
alternatives look like, especially Komodo, because it is the only
*reasonably* priced (for a personal license) commercial offering out
there.
I was reading through the thread and I tried to try a couple of the
items mentioned:
1. SPE - Neither of the download links at blender.projects.org
worked. I tried sending an e-mail to the author, but I haven't gotten
a response.
2. eric3 - I looked at it, but it has too many prerequistes! Just
trying to find the right (free) version of QT was a pain. I never was
able to get everything configured properly. If the software requires
specific software to work, I think the least the guy could do would be
to give the right links to the required software and maybe a few tips
for getting everything to work properly.