nesting instead of id ing??

Gus Richter · Feb 13, 2013

A template should be evaluated as a template, not on the basis of some
creations based on it. And I'm not sure whether it is useful to analyze
your template, but on request, here are three comments that first came
into my mind:

The demos use the contruct as per my Template. You were critical of my
Template, so I presented two demos which validate and requested your
critique on the demos. You choose instead to again refer to the Template.

1) <html lang="en">
A template should not have a particular language code wired in. There
are far too many web pages that claim to be in English but aren't,
either because they were based on wrong templates or because some
authoring software spits out lang="en" no matter what.

I remind you that it is a *simple* Template not to be muddled up with
details. If anyone, authoring in another language is unable to note that
s/he must modify this part, then that person is not up to par IMHO.

2) <head>
Not needed, and does not serve a useful purpose.

You must have missed the part somewhere in this thread, or another,
where I advocate to disregard all optional methods in the specs and not
try to save keystrokes.

3) <title>Template for HTML5</title>
No reason to put any text inside the element. It serves no purpose, it
just needs to be erased when actually using the template, and there
*are* people who just won't change the text.

I like to see the title of the page displayed on all my browsers and I
suspect that most people do as well.

As in my response to 1) I sadly must say that if s/he does not know
enough to replace the text between the start and end tags of the title
element, then that person is not up to par IMHO.

4) <style>
Embedded style sheets should be avoided. There are situations where they
are a comfortable tool, but a template should not encourage the use of
embedded CSS.

Hmm, aside from your opinion, although you may be confusing Embedded
with Inline, the Template simply points out the difference in construct
in HTML5 from that of the old HTML 4.01

5) <script>
Linked JavaScript files should be preferred. And if embedded JS is used,
it should often go the end of the body, or otherwise inside the body,
not in the head. (Think about simply referring to elements by their ids
in straight code not wrapped in functions.)

Once again, whether the script is used in the head or body, the Template
simply points out the difference in construct in HTML5 from that of the
old HTML 4.01

Gus Richter · Feb 13, 2013

Hmm, aside from your opinion, although you may be confusing Embedded
with Inline, the Template simply points out the difference in construct
in HTML5 from that of the old HTML 4.01

I thought on this since I felt uncomfortable with my response and here
is my new response:

Embedded exists and if used, the Template simply points out the
difference in construct in HTML5 from that of the old HTML 4.01 or are
you suggesting to not mention it and keep a reader in the dark?

For a simple page there is no problem in using Embedded or Inline. For a
larger site, use External stylesheets for maintenance benefit and faster
page(s) download with a single External stylesheet, or possibly a few
coordinated ones, for the entire site.

Don't you agree that this 4) went way off track?

Jukka K. Korpela · Feb 13, 2013

You were critical of my
Template, so I presented two demos which validate and requested your
critique on the demos. You choose instead to again refer to the Template.

That's because it's the template that we discuss, not specific pages.

1) <html lang="en">

Click to expand...

[...]
I remind you that it is a *simple* Template not to be muddled up with
details.

The specific language code *is* an unnecessary detail. It is (meta)data
to be filled in, not part of a general template.

You must have missed the part somewhere in this thread, or another,
where I advocate to disregard all optional methods in the specs and not
try to save keystrokes.

I like to see the title of the page displayed on all my browsers and I
suspect that most people do as well.

The title of a page, not the name of the template it is based on.

As in my response to 1) I sadly must say that if s/he does not know
enough to replace the text between the start and end tags of the title
element, then that person is not up to par IMHO.

Since the content of the element should *always* be replaced by
something else, why make this more difficult by putting there text that
needs to be removed?

I don't think this discussion can lead anywhere. But you asked for my
specific comments, and I have now made some, and even clarified them.

Gus Richter · Feb 14, 2013

That's because it's the template that we discuss, not specific pages.

I made a specific request and as you know very well, the demos have no
problems and if so concluded, it would follow that the Template, upon
which the demos are based, is also the same.

1) <html lang="en">

Click to expand...

[...]
I remind you that it is a *simple* Template not to be muddled up with
details.

Click to expand...

The specific language code *is* an unnecessary detail. It is (meta)data
to be

It is necessary since it *is to be used as shown* in the HTML5 construct.

The <head> tag still serves no useful purpose.

It does to me and I advocate its use. I also note that you use it on
your page(s).

The title of a page, not the name of the template it is based on.

My page, my content, my Template and my title.

Since the content of the element should *always* be replaced by
something else, why make this more difficult by putting there text that
needs to be removed?

As an informative example.

I don't think this discussion can lead anywhere. But you asked for my
specific comments, and I have now made some, and even clarified them.

I agree since you are simply nit-picking IMHO.
Anyway, I use the Template as a reminder. You, and everyone else, are at
liberty to ignore it. Thanks for your time.

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nesting instead of id ing??

Gus Richter

Gus Richter

Jukka K. Korpela

Gus Richter

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