OK, Next Question.

[DLU]

There is no "apparently" about it. If you understood the box model, you
would know that, and how to avoid such problems.

? Are you talking about the empty space between the bottom of the
masthead and the top of the h2? That area does not extend any farther
right than it did before. It is bound by the same containing div.main as
the 2 content columns. Whatever you perceive to be the issue is probably
not it at all.

BTW, I see no real difference between IE6 and other browsers. The layout
looks to be equally "off" in all.


No, removing the border on .wrapper caused problems. I'll try to explain...

Before:
.wrapper { <-- container for the 3 cols below the masthead
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
border-width: 0 180px 0 0;
border-color: #CCC;
border-style: solid;
}
.main { <-- container for the 2 content cols
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
width: 100%;
}

Now:
.wrapper {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
border-width: 0 0 0 0; <-- right border gone
border-color: #CCC;
border-style: solid;
}
.main {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
width: 100%; <-- same as before
}

The .wrapper div has no explicit width and defaults to auto, which in
this case is 100% of the available viewport width. The previous styling
with the border made the calculated div width (refer to the box model)
100% *minus* 180px
The right column was subsequently positioned with a margin-right:-180px
that put it on top of that 180px right border.

Within .wrapper there is another div container for the 2-column content
area: .main
Its width is 100% of the available space in .wrapper. After you removed
the border, this became 100% of the viewport width, leaving no place for
the right column to go except off the right side of the screen.

Does any of that make sense? If not, what specifically don't you
understand?

I see now, there is another CSS for wrapper, inbox1, main.

/* stretch float containers for IE */
..inbox1 {
zoom: 1;
}
..main {
zoom: 1;
}
..wrapper {
zoom: 1;
}

387 .inbox1 Property zoom doesn't exist : 1
390 .main Property zoom doesn't exist : 1
393 .wrapper Property zoom doesn't exist : 1

But you either aren't comprehending, or not retaining what you do learn.
I don't know why that is, but it is your biggest obstacle at the moment.

Its old age.

By "extending" do you mean adding the inline style of height:1593px?


This shows just how little you do know. The number you chose only
"works" when the conditions are the exact same as when you chose it. By
that I mean browser viewport size, font size, and any other variables
that affect the physical page dimensions. You might as well have picked
3000, or 1000, and had a chance of being "right" under some specific
conditions. Setting height like that is an ugly, newbie hack and is the
wrong way to go about it.

So if the , viewport size is changed, the rightbar will not change with
it.

You aren't asking the right questions, I think, or it appears that you
aren't even trying to learn from the references given you, even if you
really are. The latter is perceived as laziness on your part and does
not endear you to the regulars here. So you get hammered.

I do not find all these explanations in the references. What you have
just written I did not find in the references. They may be implied but
I did not read it that way. Your explanation is a lot clearer than what
I have read so far.

Does that mean you are working off a different version than the one you
posted for us to see? BTW, an unclosed <li> can indeed have undesirable
effects.

I restored it to the original. However I still would lke to find a way
to make it read right on IE6. It seems as if quite a few people are
still using it. Some of them told me that their computer would not let
them upgrade. Now I am not sure why not, unless they are running a
bogus program, windoze 2000, XP, Vista, all should allow the IE7
upgrade. None of them are running Linux as far as I know. There are
several MACs but tthey see it OK.

I don't know what that means. What program?

One of the pictures had a line in it that referenced something about it
having been created by the thumbnail creator, or something to that
effect. It was not necessary but did not do anthing to the picture itself.
--
***************************************
* This is the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* I am not SPEWS.ORG *
***************************************

 

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

I restored it to the original. However I still would lke to find a
way to make it read right on IE6. It seems as if quite a few people
are still using it. Some of them told me that their computer would
not let them upgrade. Now I am not sure why not, unless they are
running a bogus program,

What exactly did you mean by a 'bogus program'?

windoze 2000, XP, Vista, all should allow the IE7 upgrade.

Windows 2000 is limited to a maximum of IE6, in my experience. AFAIR,
one needs XP (with SP1 or SP2?) or greater to install IE7.

None of them are running Linux as far as I know.

More's the pity...

There are several MACs but tthey see it OK.

...using what browser?

 

[DLU]

What exactly did you mean by a 'bogus program'?

Pirated or not verified by MS, so are unable to upgrade.

Windows 2000 is limited to a maximum of IE6, in my experience. AFAIR,
one needs XP (with SP1 or SP2?) or greater to install IE7.

Well, maybe they are running 2000, I did not ask. I have a copy of 2000
but have not used it for a couple of years now. It was on another
machine that I upgraded to XP. I still have the 3.1 disks that are
needed to upgrade to 98, and the 98 that I can also use for upgrades.

More's the pity...


..using what browser?

Safari as far as I know. I am not a MAC person but have been
considering it. Main reason for sticking to PCs is I can upgrade
hardware without buying complete new systems. I may get a MAC laptop
next time. I have a HP and it has been to the repair shop four times in
four years.

--
***************************************
* This is the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* I am not SPEWS.ORG *
***************************************

 

[dorayme]

Main reason for sticking to PCs is I can upgrade
hardware without buying complete new systems.

Depends what Mac you get. Never bought a Mac for a long time that I
can't upgrade. Even an ancient Mac SE (the only all-in-one machines I
have, I have cracked open to yank stuff out and in.)

You are right though that there are many iMacs nowadays that are not
upgrade friendly. he ones that are, the Desktop towers are rather
expensive!

But all is not lost. You can buy a G5 or G5 tower second hand for
between $100 and $1000 US. They will outlast most people and are a joy
to open and swap stuff about on. There ar e no lack of things available
to make them more and better...

 

[dorayme]

You can buy a G5 or G5 tower second hand for
between $100 and $1000 US.

You can buy a G4 or G5 tower second hand

 

[DLU]

You can buy a G4 or G5 tower second hand

Yes but I can buy a new mother board, a quad chip, memory and even a new
hard drive for less than that. I also have more in software than I do
in computers. I had an apple 2g one, operating system disk on one side
and program on the other. Then went to an XT, with 640k memory, 10 meg
hard drive, and 14k modem.

--
***************************************
* This is the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* I am not SPEWS.ORG *
***************************************

 

[DLU]

I see where the problem with IE6 comes from.
There are two boxes with two more boxes inside the inside box.
Then there is a box below the header.
So we have wrapper, then leftpart inside that.
I made leftpart width 99% and that allowed rightbar to slide down next
to leftpart. Then I had to make disclaim less than 100% also as it was
blocking rightbar too. I also had to make the width I made a couple of
minor adjustments to inbox1 to make their spacing look more uniform.

I just could not see the leftpart as being the box inside the wrapper.
it makes sense now.

One of the users of IE6 said it looks like it should now.

I guess I should see if I can put a copy of IE6 on this machine in order
to see how it looks when working with these things.
--
***************************************
* This is the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* I am not SPEWS.ORG *
***************************************

 

[Bergamot]

So if the , viewport size is changed, the rightbar will not change with
it.

When you set an explicit height:1593px, the right column will always be
that length, regardless of other factors. Change your browser window
size and see what happens. In my usual ~800px wide window, the gray
background did *not* stretch all the way down to the bottom of the page.
Zooming text up or down also affects the page size, but not the height
of the gray background in the right column.

Using the border/negative margin positioning method, the right column
will stretch and shrink as needed to fit the content.

I do not find all these explanations in the references. What you have
just written I did not find in the references. They may be implied but
I did not read it that way. Your explanation is a lot clearer than what
I have read so far.

What I have written is specific to your page, though the concepts are
explained in many places on the web. Can you apply what you are learning
here to other situations?

I restored it to the original. However I still would lke to find a way
to make it read right on IE6.

What specifically is wrong with the page in IE6? It looks fine to me.

Some of them told me that their computer would not let
them upgrade. Now I am not sure why not, unless they are running a
bogus program, windoze 2000, XP, Vista, all should allow the IE7
upgrade.

IE7 requires minimum Windows XP SP2. It won't run on anything older than
that.

 

[Will]

I see where the problem with IE6 comes from.
There are two boxes with two more boxes inside the inside box.
Then there is a box below the header.
So we have wrapper, then leftpart inside that.
I made leftpart width 99% and that allowed rightbar to slide down next
to leftpart. Then I had to make disclaim less than 100% also as it was
blocking rightbar too. I also had to make the width I made a couple of
minor adjustments to inbox1 to make their spacing look more uniform.

I just could not see the leftpart as being the box inside the wrapper.
it makes sense now.

One of the users of IE6 said it looks like it should now.

I guess I should see if I can put a copy of IE6 on this machine in order
to see how it looks when working with these things.

You should visit www.browsershots.org - you will find just about every
browser and operating system configuration available. Brilliant for
checking out alterations to sites prior to making them "live".

As usual, I have no connection with that site!

 

[dorayme]

I see where the problem with IE6 comes from.
There are two boxes with two more boxes inside the inside box.
Then there is a box below the header.
So we have wrapper, then leftpart inside that.
I made leftpart width 99% and that allowed rightbar to slide down next
to leftpart. Then I had to make disclaim less than 100% also as it was
blocking rightbar too. I also had to make the width I made a couple of
minor adjustments to inbox1 to make their spacing look more uniform.

I just could not see the leftpart as being the box inside the wrapper.
it makes sense now.

One of the users of IE6 said it looks like it should now.

I guess I should see if I can put a copy of IE6 on this machine in order
to see how it looks when working with these things.

You should visit www.browsershots.org - you will find just about every
browser and operating system configuration available. Brilliant for
checking out alterations to sites prior to making them "live".

As usual, I have no connection with that site![/QUOTE]

Nonsense, I have men out spying for me and you have been seen cavorting
around at browsershots.org headquarters, receiving free drinks, cake and
boxed sets of the IE browser.

Just remember DLU that it is the dynamic properties of browsers that are
important to test and you will not easily see these things in static
screenshots. By dynamic I mean what does the page do under different
user font settings, under different user size settings etc.

 

[DLU]

Just remember DLU that it is the dynamic properties of browsers that are
important to test and you will not easily see these things in static
screenshots. By dynamic I mean what does the page do under different
user font settings, under different user size settings etc.

The layout seems to be the factor with IE. We all know it is a piece of
crap no mater what version, but again, people go to Best Buy, or some
computer store, more laptops these days, and it already has windoze
loaded as part of the price. They barely know how to use the browser
not alone get a better one and configure it. The MAC users seem to
actually be better informed than PC users. The design of my site by
Neredbojias is set to account for the variations in size, font and such.
I was unable to see what some people were complaining about when they
viewed the web page. Again, it took someone who could actually describe
what it did erather than just a general description. For instance on
user said she saw two pages and had to go from one to the other. What
she actually saw was the rightbar under the header with a big white
space below, then had to scroll down to see the left side of the page.
As I said, for whatever reason, in IE6, the viewer would not let the
rightbar nest next to leftpart until leftpart was reduced to 99%. Other
browsers did not have this restriction. Changing the width did not
change the view with other browsers but allowed IE6 to see it with
rigtbar nested against leftpart.

He used the boxes with sizes set at % to allow for such variations.
I would have been using pix or em for instance, but I see know why it
does not with size variations.

Now I am looking at one of the sites I link to as I have to make some
changes to it and I can see how poorly it is set up. Just about every
line has inline style. I will take it and see if I can work it over
using CSS to clean it up now that I have some idea of the basics.

http://home.surewest.net/bikesac/bikesac/


--
***************************************
* This is the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* I am not SPEWS.ORG *
***************************************

 

[Will]

wrote:




Nonsense, I have men out spying for me and you have been seen cavorting
around at browsershots.org headquarters, receiving free drinks, cake and
boxed sets of the IE browser.

Just remember DLU that it is the dynamic properties of browsers that are
important to test and you will not easily see these things in static
screenshots. By dynamic I mean what does the page do under different
user font settings, under different user size settings etc.

I nominated that site as DLU noted that he ought to get a copy of IE6
installed on his pc, which as I understand it, is not a straightforward
task if one wishes to run it alongside IE7.

You are correct of course that it is useful to have a "hands on" setup,
in which one can alter setting "live" so to speak, but I have found that
if there is a problem with something on my sites, it tends to show on
the static results of that site.

I always run new versions of my pages through the validators first in
any case, which picks up most of my lapses.

I'll crawl back under my stone now

 

[dorayme]

I'll crawl back under my stone now

No need, I was only joking with you. Browsershots is a great facility
and you were right to mention it.

 

[rf]

I nominated that site as DLU noted that he ought to get a copy of IE6
installed on his pc, which as I understand it, is not a
straightforward task if one wishes to run it alongside IE7.

It is quite straightforward.

Google multipleie

 

[Will]

It is quite straightforward.

Google multipleie

Hi, I wasn't aware of that. However, After a quick look, it appears that
it only works on XP ( I do have that, but principal PC runs Vista -
(runs away n hides)).

I did see also that it is prone to crashing - how microsoft, lol.

However, I run Firefox with lots of bells n whistles, so IE is only of
academic interest. Bloody frustrating, too, it is on occasion

I've just discovered Safari on windows, another new toy

 

[rf]

Hi, I wasn't aware of that. However, After a quick look, it appears
that it only works on XP ( I do have that, but principal PC runs
Vista - (runs away n hides)).

The best thing you can do with vista is to format your disk and install XP.
Unless, of course, you don't want to install any third party software or
hardware.

I did see also that it is prone to crashing - how microsoft, lol.

However, I run Firefox with lots of bells n whistles, so IE is only of
academic interest. Bloody frustrating, too, it is on occasion

Not when the majority of viewers out there useit.

 

[BootNic]

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 00:44:51 GMT

[snip]

Hi, I wasn't aware of that. However, After a quick look, it
appears that it only works on XP ( I do have that, but principal PC
runs Vista - (runs away n hides)).

The best thing you can do with vista is to format your disk and
install XP. Unless, of course, you don't want to install any third
party software or hardware.

Virtual PC 2007
Microsoft site: http://tinyurl.com/6j9zvv

Internet Explorer Application Compatibility VPC Image
Microsoft site: http://tinyurl.com/srgtw

[snip]


--

BootNic Sat Dec 27, 2008 08:52 pm
Good habits result from resisting temptation.
*Ancient Proverb*

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[Bergamot]

As I said, for whatever reason, in IE6, the viewer would not let the
rightbar nest next to leftpart until leftpart was reduced to 99%.

http://home.surewest.net/bikesac/bikesac/

I bet the culprit is really the extra 3% padding you added to div.r:

..r {
float: left;
width: 45.5%;
padding-right: 3%; padding-left: 3%;
}

Formerly:
..r {
float: right;
width: 45.5%;
padding-right: 3%; /* 48.5% leaves 1.5% left margin */
}

You also changed the float:right to float:left. I don't know why, but no
matter. You need to get rid of one of those paddings, because that's
what's making it go over 100%. Once you do that, you should be able to
put div.leftpart back to 100%.

 

[DLU]

I bet the culprit is really the extra 3% padding you added to div.r:

.r {
float: left;
width: 45.5%;
padding-right: 3%; padding-left: 3%;
}

Formerly:
.r {
float: right;
width: 45.5%;
padding-right: 3%; /* 48.5% leaves 1.5% left margin */
}

You also changed the float:right to float:left. I don't know why, but no
matter. You need to get rid of one of those paddings, because that's
what's making it go over 100%. Once you do that, you should be able to
put div.leftpart back to 100%.

There are two .l CSS. I do not know how that happened.
Now they add up to 99.5%
I commented one of them out.

..l {
float: left;
width: 45.5%;
padding-left: 2.5%; /* 48% leaves 2% right "margin" */
}
..r {
float: left;
width: 45.5%;
padding-right: 3%; padding-left: 3%;
}

I floated the right box to the left as it made the distance between the
two look more consistent with the distance of the rightbar.
The div.leftpart was the problem with IE6, as was the .disclaim.
I checked it at: www.browsershots.org and it works with IE5 also.

I also removed the padding from .disclaim which reduced the white space
below the header.
--
***************************************
* This is the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* I am not SPEWS.ORG *
***************************************

 

[DLU]

>

>
> I bet the culprit is really the extra 3% padding you added to div.r:
>
> .r {
> float: left;
> width: 45.5%;
> padding-right: 3%; padding-left: 3%;
> }
>
> Formerly:
> .r {
> float: right;
> width: 45.5%;
> padding-right: 3%; /* 48.5% leaves 1.5% left margin */
> }
>
> You also changed the float:right to float:left. I don't know why, but

no matter. You need to get rid of one of those paddings, because that's
what's making it go over 100%. Once you do that, you should be able to
put div.leftpart back to 100%.

>

There are two .l CSS. I do not know how that happened.
Now they add up to 99.5%
I commented one of them out.

..l {
float: left;
width: 45.5%;
padding-left: 2.5%; /* 48% leaves 2% right "margin" */
}
..r {
float: left;
width: 45.5%;
padding-right: 3%; padding-left: 3%;
}

I floated the right box to the left as it made the distance between the
two look more consistent with the distance of the rightbar.
The div.leftpart was the problem with IE6, as was the .disclaim.
I checked it at: www.browsershots.org and it works with IE5 also.

I also removed the padding from .disclaim which reduced the white space
below the header.
--
***************************************
* This is the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* I am not SPEWS.ORG *
***************************************