On some web sites I see that <p> is not used.

[David Segall]

But, you can do the same stuff with XHTML served as text/html that
you can with HTML 4.01 Strict, so you really are better off just
useing HTML 4.01 as XHTMl in the majority of cases has no benifit.

Doesn't it have the benefit of causing validators to flag a departure
from the "same stuff"?

 

[Tim Streater]

To p or not to p; that is the question.

Well, don't do it here please. The bathroom's next door.

 

[Andy Dingley]

This is one of those in-house statements that needs to be taken with a
grain of salt.

I didn't say that it was wrong to do this, merely that's it's one of
several fuzzy flags as to lack of clue. An XML PI OTOH, now that _is_
harmfully wrong.

 

[Andy Dingley]

What everyone does not realise here is that Richard has enormous
potential

So did tiktaalik, but you still wouldn't invite one to dinner.

 

[Bergamot]

XHTMl in the majority of cases has no benifit.
It can actually be harmfull as it throws IE7 into quirks mode

No, an XHTML DOCTYPE (either Strict or Transitional) does not put IE7
into quirks mode. IE6 will go into quirks mode, but only when the XML
prolog (or some other non-blank line) precedes the DOCTYPE.

http://hsivonen.iki.fi/doctype/

 

[rf]

To p or not to p; that is the question.

Do sharks <p> or just live at one with their environment?

 

[Bergamot]

What I'm surprised, these pages are showing properly in any of my editors.

Hmmm... does that mean you are the site's author? Regardless, how it
looks in some so-called WYSIWYG editor is irrelevant. Try a browser, or 3.

Dreamweaver, Front Page 2003 and Expression Web. That is not happening
often!

Well, that's no surprise if they are using IE's rendering engine, and
the last 2 undoubtedly are.

Not using <p> saves space.

So what? It's not about saving space. It's about marking up the content

What I've read here typing <font size -1>
etc. is wasting space because if millions of hits on a web page...

Non sequitur. Using font tags (or not) has nothing to do with correct
paragraph markup. It's unlikely that particular site is getting millions
of hits anyway, though activity no doubt spiked over the past couple days.

This web site is one of the best and neat design I've ever seen

Maybe you should get out more. It's nothing special, IMO.

What else would you want?

Correct markup.

 

[Chaddy2222]

No, an XHTML DOCTYPE (either Strict or Transitional) does not put IE7
into quirks mode. IE6 will go into quirks mode, but only when the XML
prolog (or some other non-blank line) precedes the DOCTYPE.

http://hsivonen.iki.fi/doctype/

Thanks, I'll have another look at that site later, I think I have
viewed it before but not for quite a while.

 

[Blinky the Shark]

Do sharks <p> or just live at one with their environment?

It's not just the salt that suggest you shouldn't drink sea water.

 

[Neredbojias]

This web site is one of the best and neat design I've ever seen
without any clutter, messy display in some browsers and editors, and
of course validates.

Fixed width above 800px? I don't think so.

Graphic design is beautiful without distracting flash crap and moving
gifs.

The absence of animation is fine with me also but most sites I visit
are same.

What else would you want?

More clever authoring while maintaining simplicity.

 

[dorayme]

I didn't say that it was wrong to do this, merely that's it's one of
several fuzzy flags as to lack of clue. An XML PI OTOH, now that _is_
harmfully wrong.

"Always a sign" I took to mean something like "an invariable
concomitant". But if it is just a fuzzy flag, a ding of entirely
possible cluelessness, then that is different.

(I used to think that religious people *must* be incompetent in their
normal jobs because of certain views I have of the kind of thinking that
leads to religion. In other words, there was an invariable connection to
wild thought outside religious thinking). But I now see that they do not
employ the same kind of thinking anywhere else in their lives, their
mental operations in regard to religion are highly compartmentalized. So
much so, imo, that I do not believe many people actually believe in God
(contrary to the appearance and to what they say they believe). I have
changed the assessment I make of the reliability of the flag in this
case).

 

[murray.nuttall]

Not only should you be striving for semantic richness, you should also
spare a thought for people using screen readers. I'm pretty sure a
screen reader won't insert pauses to separate the text.

 

[dorayme]

Not only should you be striving for semantic richness, you should also
spare a thought for people using screen readers. I'm pretty sure a
screen reader won't insert pauses to separate the text.

Yes, it is like gold dust, semantic richness, the more the better eh?

Let's look at the particular context, the OP had, stuff like:

<h1>Website Design</h1>

<strong>Website design</strong> is the part of building a website which
can include design ...

<h2>How can I benefit from website design?</h2>

A truly well designed website can turn into a strong marketing tool, the
primary objective of which is to ...

<h2>Services we offer:</h2>

(all in a big wrapper div)

and you are saying you are sure a screen reader would not pause after
the </h1> or before the <h2>. How about telling us if this is so or not.

 

[murray.nuttall]

Yes, it is like gold dust, semantic richness, the more the better eh?

Let's look at the particular context, the OP had, stuff like:

<h1>Website Design</h1>

<strong>Website design</strong> is the part of building a website which
can include design ...

<h2>How can I benefit from website design?</h2>

A truly well designed website can turn into a strong marketing tool, the  
primary objective of which is to ...

<h2>Services we offer:</h2>

(all in a big wrapper div)

and you are saying you are sure a screen reader would not pause after
the </h1> or before the <h2>. How about telling us if this is so or not.

What I'm really saying is that if it's a paragraph put it in a <p>
tag. That's the underlying message.

 

[dorayme]

What I'm really saying is that if it's a paragraph put it in a <p>
tag. That's the underlying message.

<says the spider to the fly> But I said that earlier in the thread. So
did others I am sure. I was taking up what might have been a bit new in
your post. But I see you won't bite! Why not poke a tar baby when you
have a chance.</g>

 

[Chaddy2222]

<says the spider to the fly> But I said that earlier in the thread. So
did others I am sure. I was taking up what might have been a bit new in
your post. But I see you won't bite! Why not poke a tar baby when you
have a chance.</g>

On the note of screen readers, if you do not have text marked up in a
paragraph, then that block of text will be read out as if it was one
very long paragraph, and the whole thing is just a mess really.

 

[dorayme]

On Jan 16, 11:56 am, dorayme wrote:
On the note of screen readers, if you do not have text marked up in a
paragraph, then that block of text will be read out as if it was one
very long paragraph, and the whole thing is just a mess really.

If a bit of text is one paragraph anyway, then what does it matter in
respect to the pausing if it is wrapped in a paragraph element in the
context I mentioned? Neither murray nor you has given any feedback on
this. I suspect it does not matter, but would be happy to be corrected.

 

[Murray]

If a bit of text is one paragraph anyway, then what does it matter in
respect to the pausing if it is wrapped in a paragraph element in the
context I mentioned? Neither murray nor you has given any feedback on
this. I suspect it does not matter, but would be happy to be corrected.

It works fine.

 

[dorayme]

It works fine.

Thank you.

This means, if there is no other evidence to show otherwise, that
nothing is gained to make it more meaningful to the website using public
and something is actually lost to the world.

 

[rf]

Let's look at the particular context the OP had. Stuff like:

<h2>What products/services are suited for e-commerce?</h2>

Certain products/services appear more suitable...
<br/>
<br/>
The ideal products/services...
<br/>
<br/>
Products unsuitable for e-commerce...

<h2>How can I benefit from e-commerce?</h2>

These things are *clearly* paragraphs yet the author did not mark them up as
paragraphs but used <br><br> under the mistaken assumption that this would
produce a blank line visually. It might in some browsers but it is not
specified to do so. The author is probably totally unaware that this might
*not* produce a blank aurally.

</quote>

Exactly. A truly well designed website. A poorly designed one (like this)
could well drive people (the visually impaired) away.

What I'm really saying is that if it's a paragraph put it in a <p>
tag. That's the underlying message.

Exactly, except that it is a paragraph element. The paragraph element
includes the opening <p> tag, the content, and the closing </p> tag. *That*
is what an aural browser is looking for to create pauses. Pauses between
paragraph elements. Not pauses *at* <p> tags or <br> tags. The author of the
subject page seem to be under the mistaken impression that <br> and
possibly <p> are "commands", like \r\n in a word processor.