(OT) Programmer's editors for the Mac

[James Edward Gray II]

if it had some good vim like bindings and an
excellent plugin system i'd use it, as it stands
other than its cute text widget it gives me nothing
extra than vim and takes away a lot.

I'm not sure what constitutes an "excellent plugin system". TextMate
does let you build your own resource "Bundles" with a built-in "Bundle
Editor". These can contain Templates, Snippets, Commands, and Language
Definitions. Templates, Snippets and Commands can shell out to Unix
tools, so they can pretty much talk to anything. Snippets are
replacement text with built in tab orders and Unix tool content
generation; this is really the editor's greatest strength, I think.

The program has its own recordable macro system that can allow you to
do automation with no coding. It also understands its own URL prefix,
which can be used to get external programs to ask TextMate to show
certain sections of certain files.

It's pretty customizable and open, in my opinion.

also, i find its a big shame about its default syntax
highlighting for ruby its very bland...

That's definitely opinion and we don't agree. When I first saw
those colors together I thought it was garish, but after using it for
some time I have to say that it's remarkably readable.

Clearly editor choosing is very personal. That's why I think it's
important to download the demos and play around a bit.

James Edward Gray II

 

[Jarek Rzeszótko]

Just got a new Powerbook, so I'm looking for suggestions for a good
programmer's editor for both Ruby and C. I already know vi. I'm looking
for a GUI-type editor.

Don't forget that real programmers use Emacs After installing some
packages it has Ruby syntax highlighing, smart indent, can run an
embedded Ruby interpreter, has an interface to ri and so on... Eclipse
with Ruby plugin and FreeRIDE are some easier alternatives and can also
be interesting. Vim was already mentioned...

Jarek Rzeszótko

 

[Tim Ferrell]

Another option would be Slickedit http://www.slickedit.com ...

Cheers,
Tim

 

[Alexander Kellett]

I'm not sure what constitutes an "excellent plugin system". TextMate
does let you build your own resource "Bundles" with a built-in "Bundle
Editor". These can contain Templates, Snippets, Commands, and
Language Definitions. Templates, Snippets and Commands can shell out
to Unix tools, so they can pretty much talk to anything. Snippets are
replacement text with built in tab orders and Unix tool content
generation; this is really the editor's greatest strength, I think.

excellent plugin system would allow me to do custom completion types,
e.g, adding filename completion would be possible. alignment of
variables
with = should also be possible, with easy access to the syntax
highlightings
tokenization making this possible. simple things like the ability to add
an embedded continually running irb with ability to snip code chunks
into it.

etc. i can think of a billion things that i've wanted to macro-ize in
the
past. and in the main they all require logic that plugin systems just
don't provide.

The program has its own recordable macro system that can allow you to
do automation with no coding. It also understands its own URL prefix,
which can be used to get external programs to ask TextMate to show
certain sections of certain files.

still to find anything that lets me design a macro well
doubt that textmate could appease me on that. i think i'm
just not a editor macro sort of person.

That's definitely opinion and we don't agree. When I first saw
those colors together I thought it was garish, but after using it for
some time I have to say that it's remarkably readable.

i don't have a problem with the colours actually. its just
that vim's highlighting provides much more colour. and i've
grown very accustomed to its helpful hinting

Clearly editor choosing is very personal. That's why I think it's
important to download the demos and play around a bit.

totally agreed.

Alex

 

[Timothy Hunter]

Another option would be Slickedit http://www.slickedit.com ...

Cheers,
Tim

Actually, I use SlickEdit on Linux and Windows. It's a very good
editor, the only one I've ever seen that makes veteran emacs-ers sit up
and take notice. I'm not too keen on paying for a 3rd license fee,
though. :-(

 

[Guillaume Marcais]

Another option would be Slickedit http://www.slickedit.com ...

They do not mention support for Ruby on their specs. An omission or no
real support yet?

Guillaume.

 

[Trans]

Thanks for the tips, I'll try it.

T.

 

[Lloyd Zusman]

I use vi/vim for quick/light editing. But I don't understand how others
use it as their main editor. And I don't say this lightly: I even
bought a book on using vi/vim. Yet I still often hear how "wonderous"
it is if one does.

So tell me this, how does one copy and paste without counting lines?
Using n+yy & p (where n is some number) for a few lines is okay, but
beyond that...

ma [mark the top (or bottom) position of the text that you want
to copy or cut, and call this mark 'a']
[now, position to the bottom (top) of the text to mark]
y'a [copy ("yank") the text from the 'a' mark to the line where
the cursor is currently positioned]
[if you want to cut the text, do this, instead: d'a ]
[now, position to where you want the text to go]
p [to paste the text after the cursor or ... ]
P [to paste the text before the cursor]

Not that I'm advocating vi/vim, as I'm an emacs person, myself. But I
just want to show that it's possible to copy/cut/paste/etc. without
counting lines.

 

[Timothy Hunter]

They do not mention support for Ruby on their specs. An omission or no
real support yet?

Guillaume.

No real support. There's a Ruby syntax-highlighting file out there
somewhere but mostly I made up my own. Also SlickEdit is extremely
customizable. There's little you can't do if you're willing to learn
the Slick-C language.

 

[Jamis Buck]

I use vi/vim for quick/light editing. But I don't understand how others
use it as their main editor. And I don't say this lightly: I even
bought a book on using vi/vim. Yet I still often hear how "wonderous"
it is if one does.

So tell me this, how does one copy and paste without counting lines?
Using n+yy & p (where n is some number) for a few lines is okay, but
beyond that...

Use the 'v' familiy of commands to enter 'visual' select mode.

1. Position the cursor on the first line you wish to copy.
2. Press 'v' (for character-wise selection) or 'shift-v' (for
line-wise selection) or 'ctrl-v' (for block-wise selection)
3. Select the text you want to copy (using the arrow keys, etc.)
4. Press 'y' to 'yank' (copy) the text, or 'x' to cut it.
5. Move the cursor to where you want to paste.
6. Press 'p' to paste after the current cursor position, or 'P' to
paste before it.

I use the 'v' commands all the time. Unfortunately, they are unique to
vim--vanilla 'vi' has no such niceties.

That said--vim won't be for everyone. Just as emacs works well for
many people, it doesn't work well for everyone (read, "me"). So don't
feel bad if you can't wrap your thinking around vim. Just look for the
tool that fits your way of doing things.

- Jamis

 

[Eko Budi Setiyo]

During the weekend somebody ask about IDE's... I have used Mondrian
and so far I have found it simple and easy to use. I would really
recomend it. You can download from:

http://www.mondrian-ide.com

Cheers

Is it posible to show the code line number. I try to do it but I can't

regards
Eko

 

[Marcelo (PC)]

Go to Edit/Preferences and go to editor. Select Display line numbers.

Cheers!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eko Budi Setiyo" <[email protected]>
To: "ruby-talk ML" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: About Ruby's IDE

 

[Eko Budi Setiyo]

Thanks

regards
Eko

Go to Edit/Preferences and go to editor. Select Display line numbers.

Cheers!
----- Original Message ----- From: "Eko Budi Setiyo"
<[email protected]>
To: "ruby-talk ML" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: About Ruby's IDE

 

[Mark Hubbart]

Another option would be Slickedit http://www.slickedit.com ...

GAH! A word of warning: since I've heard many nice things about
slickedit in the past, and didn't realize they had a mac version, I
decided to install the trial version and check it out.

Problems:

1. Before downloading, they require full name, location, and phone number (!!!)
2. The installer package (which, on a mac, usually just dumps the
files where they belong) extracts an archive in the root directory,
then uses a post-flight script to *slowly* unpack 90-some megs of
files and place them manually.
3. Without notifying you before-hand what it's going to do, it
apparently attempts to dump files in system directories like /bin.
4. And after all that concern and time taken, it refuses to work. Yay.

Now, if I can only find an uninstaller... Maybe one that's not as
crappy as the installer.

Hopefully in future versions they will have worked the bugs out.

cheers,
Mark

 

[Ruth A. Kramer]

Don't forget that real programmers use Emacs After installing some
packages it has Ruby syntax highlighing, smart indent, can run an
embedded Ruby interpreter, has an interface to ri and so on... Eclipse
with Ruby plugin and FreeRIDE are some easier alternatives and can also
be interesting. Vim was already mentioned...

Ok, an Emacs proponent--maybe I can ask an Emacs question or two:

* How do you change the font and size in Emacs (or Xemacs)? (One big
turnoff to Emacs for me has been that the default fonts are too small
and ugly (not easy to read for me), and I've not found the way to change
them.

* I guess the M in various control key combinations is intended to
stand for the Meta key--is that the Alt key? (or, are there
variations--for me, assume a "standard" "Windows" keyboard)

thanks,
Randy Kramer

 

[Karl von Laudermann]

GAH! A word of warning: since I've heard many nice things about
slickedit in the past, and didn't realize they had a mac version, I
decided to install the trial version and check it out.

Problems:

1. Before downloading, they require full name, location, and phone number (!!!)
2. The installer package (which, on a mac, usually just dumps the
files where they belong) extracts an archive in the root directory,
then uses a post-flight script to *slowly* unpack 90-some megs of
files and place them manually.
3. Without notifying you before-hand what it's going to do, it
apparently attempts to dump files in system directories like /bin.
4. And after all that concern and time taken, it refuses to work.

Yay.

This is why a .pkg file is a deal-breaker for me when trying out a
piece of software before buying. I want drag-and-drop install for
try-before-buy software (and pretty much all Mac software, for that
matter), thank you very much. If the download turns out to unpack to a
..pkg file, I just delete it; I only tolerate installers if I've already
bought or decided to keep the software.

 

[Jim Weirich]

Ruth A. Kramer said:

Ok, an Emacs proponent--maybe I can ask an Emacs question or two:

* How do you change the font and size in Emacs (or Xemacs)? (One big
turnoff to Emacs for me has been that the default fonts are too small
and ugly (not easy to read for me), and I've not found the way to change
them.

In XEmacs, go to the Options menu (on the menu bar) and go down to the
Size selection. You should get a cascading menu with several radio
buttons with point sizes. Near the Size menu are also a Font and Weight
cascading menus. You will also find a Save Options menu select at the
very end of the Options menu.

You can also specify a font via the X11 properties facility that all X11
programs (are supposed to) follow. Generally this involves editing your
Xdefaults file.

* I guess the M in various control key combinations is intended to
stand for the Meta key--is that the Alt key? (or, are there
variations--for me, assume a "standard" "Windows" keyboard)

Yes, the M prefix stands for Meta. You can press the ESC key and then the
next key to get the Meta effect (e.g. press ESC, then "A" to get M-A). If
your keyboard is configured properly, you should also be able to use the
ALT key as a shift key to get the Meta effect (e.g. press and hold ALT and
then press "A" to get M-A). The ESC variation will always work, even on
straight ASCII terminals.

 

[Jarek Rzeszótko]

Ok, an Emacs proponent--maybe I can ask an Emacs question or two:

* How do you change the font and size in Emacs (or Xemacs)? (One big
turnoff to Emacs for me has been that the default fonts are too small
and ugly (not easy to read for me), and I've not found the way to change
them.

You can use "M-x customize[Return]" to setup Emacs. In the "Faces" group
find "default" face and change it to suit your taste.

* I guess the M in various control key combinations is intended to
stand for the Meta key--is that the Alt key? (or, are there
variations--for me, assume a "standard" "Windows" keyboard)

Yes, Meta = Alt.

Jarek Rzeszótko

 

[Brian McCallister]

Fonts on the Cocoa port of emacs on OS X are a royal pita, basically =/

-Brian

 

[Ruth A. Kramer]

You can also specify a font via the X11 properties facility that all X11
programs (are supposed to) follow. Generally this involves editing your
.Xdefaults file.

Jim,

Thanks very much!

One followup--does that mean that in Emacs the only (or the easiest) way
to change the font size and style is by editing the .Xdefaults file?

Randy Kramer