[OT] Programmers (UK)...?

[sln]

No offense, but how are you qualified to judge this, let alone to teach
it, when you're here on this group the last couple of months asking
very basic questions and still posting with questions that result from
you still not using what you've been taught here? I'm not trying to be
mean, and maybe you can code fine in VB or other languages, but what
you've demonstrated about your lack of Perl knowledge doesn't really
fairly and accurately portray what amount people could know and use,
had they been taught by someone more qualified. I'm not attacking you,
but I find your claims of Perl comparisons without merit, based on
these reasons.

Educate him Tim, hahahaa !!


- sln
No offense, but how are you qualified to judge this,
let alone teach it? I'm not trying to be mean, but what
you've demostrated about your lack of Perl knowledge makes
all the posters here double over in laughter.
I'm not attacking you btw, just constructive criticism.

 

[Uri Guttman]

VC> I was going to suggest LPM, but he did say Leeds not London. In my
VC> experience the problem he's going to have is that if you want Perl
VC> programmers, most of them are very firmly based in London.

i don't know uk geography other than most pm'ers are around london. but
i do know there are perl hackers all over the uk and i have seen job
leads outside of london as well. i don't subscribe to the london.pm jobs
list but my understanding is that it kinda covers most/all of the uk.

uri

 

[Uri Guttman]

TJM> If you knew anything about usenet you would know that mentioning
TJM> your line of business in a .sig is perfectly acceptable.

best to ignore this troll (as with all trolls). he has stalked me on irc
as well. not sure why i am his target but he also defended moronzilla
too which says a lot.

it is stalking by this troll. he will deny it.

as for my being unemployed, one of my businesses is helping others get
employed. kind of ironic for the troll to point at that. i am gainfully
employed by myself and have been for many successful years.

also i replied to tad's post since i wish to not even be associated with
this troll by having any of his headers or attributions here.

uri

 

[sln]

I've recently recruited another programmer, and coming from a technical
background I do understand these recommendations. (I make them to
others.)

On the other hand, for the specific requirement I have in mind, I need
an experienced Perl programmer. PHP or Ruby won't do (but they would be
very nice adjuncts). Domain knowledge is unlikely, so that will have to
be taught regardless of technical skills.


Thanks to all those of you who took the time to provide some suggestions
and useful feedback. It's nice to return to CLPM after a break of a year
or three (?) and find that much of the helpfulness is still here.

Chris

Your adjectively offensive. You are involved in hiring people ?
I don't think so pal. To troll this group or any group for advice,
in that regard, shows your stripes.

Tell me. What is the average length of employment for programmers,
any country? Explain the definition of full-time and benifits.
PHP and Ruby won't do, but they would be very nice, what; 'adjuncts'?

Your an abomination who doesen't know its ass from its elbow, has no
street cread and a total whack-off, period !!

- sln

 

[sln]

When I say .NET, I'm referring to the whole shootin' match, Visual
Studio and all. I've taught Perl and VB on a post-secondary level, and
I have observed that a group of students (not university level or
computer scientists, but ordinary young people) can do quite a bit
more after a quarter of VB than after a quarter of Perl. Also,
building Windows apps is a lot easier with all the Microsoft libraries
that attempted to do it with Perl. In fact, if I were building a
Windows app, I wouldn't even consider using Perl -- Visual Studio
makes it pretty easy.

I think that Perl is relageted to the, pardon my [_fill_in_blank_],
Aplication AFTERMARKET in Windows, and FIRST TIER in Unix.

That tells you what the focus is for Perl. Imagine doing Windows database
operations in Perl. What a joke, total hillarity.

Imagine doing anything in Perl in Windows, anything. It doesen't exist.
Unix has a need, all it does is web pages, %90 of the crap is web-pages.
You wouldn't use Perl for data-mining... not you wouldn't.

Btw, did Microsoft extend MFC to version 8 like they said they would ?

-sln

 

[Tim Greer]

If you knew anything about usenet you would know that your message
headers contain an "abuse@" address to direct complaints of this
nature. In your case, "(e-mail address removed)".

it wasn't spam.
Yes, it was. As is that crap you have at the bottom of your messages
advertising your various scams.
I find it more than mildly ironic that a morbidly obese chronically
unemployed person is advertising both a recruiting service AND hot
cocoa!

At the bottom of all of your posts is not considered "All the Time"
!?!?

You've done a poor job of selecting this newsgroup to try and defame
Uri. He's pretty well respected and known here. He's not a spammer,
nor is a usenet signature. He offers a site and method to help people
gain employment, that was the question, that was why he also posted
that information. Trust me, your efforts here are not going to go over
well with the community or win you any support.

 

[Tim Greer]

Educate him Tim, hahahaa !!

For a fee, sure.

- sln
No offense, but how are you qualified to judge this,
let alone teach it? I'm not trying to be mean, but what
you've demostrated about your lack of Perl knowledge makes
all the posters here double over in laughter.
I'm not attacking you btw, just constructive criticism.

Talking to yourself again?

 

[Tim Greer]

When I say .NET, I'm referring to the whole shootin' match, Visual
Studio and all. I've taught Perl and VB on a post-secondary level, and
I have observed that a group of students (not university level or
computer scientists, but ordinary young people) can do quite a bit
more after a quarter of VB than after a quarter of Perl. Also,
building Windows apps is a lot easier with all the Microsoft libraries
that attempted to do it with Perl. In fact, if I were building a
Windows app, I wouldn't even consider using Perl -- Visual Studio
makes it pretty easy.

I think that Perl is relageted to the, pardon my [_fill_in_blank_],
Aplication AFTERMARKET in Windows, and FIRST TIER in Unix.

That tells you what the focus is for Perl. Imagine doing Windows
database operations in Perl. What a joke, total hillarity.

How is that much different from doing database operations in any other
languages out there? In my opinion, most people that are Windows
centric in their "coding" are more likely beginners. Unless you get
paid good money to develop Windows applications. I happen to know you
don't and your own "I need a job" posting shows you allegedly
specialize in languages and frameworks that work better on non Windows
operating systems. Ironic.

Imagine doing anything in Perl in Windows, anything.

I'm imagining... I see no problems. Would it be my first choice? Not
likely, but I would take any job before I had to develop for Windows in
any language.

It doesen't
exist.

What doesn't exist? Perl, Perl for Windows or things written in Perl
for Windows that "do stuff". I'm pretty sure all of those things
exist. What doesn't exist?

Unix has a need, all it does is web pages, %90 of the crap is
web-pages.

You think *nix is about web pages?

You wouldn't use Perl for data-mining... not you wouldn't.

Why not? Don't you know how to?

Btw, did Microsoft extend MFC to version 8 like they said they would ?

Shouldn't you know, Windows user?

 

[cartercc]

No offense, but how are you qualified to judge this, let alone to teach
it,

Being hired to develop in a language and being hired to teach it are
two very different things. When I was teaching (and I haven't taught
regularly since 2004) I was pressed into service for about a dozen
different courses, some of which I started of totally ignorant of. In
some cases, the educational administration cares more about having a
warm body in the classroom than ... well, I don't know what.

when you're here on this group the last couple of months asking
very basic questions and still posting with questions that result from
you still not using what you've been taught here?  I'm not trying to be
mean, and maybe you can code fine in VB or other languages, but what
you've demonstrated about your lack of Perl knowledge doesn't really
fairly and accurately portray what amount people could know and use,
had they been taught by someone more qualified.  I'm not attacking you,
but I find your claims of Perl comparisons without merit, based on
these reasons.

Like most other people, I guess, I have specialized, and the three
areas that I am real good at are server-side web scripting, database
stuff, and data transformation. Outside of that I'm pretty ignorant.
The fact that I know very little about other areas (e.g., threads,
number crunching, sys admin) doesn't meant that I lack proficiency in
everything.

I don't mind admitting ignorance. A recognition of ignorance is, after
all, the first step toward curing it. And ignorance can be cured,
unlike stupidity, which can't.

CC

 

[cartercc]

When I read your "can't" in your statement as "maybe shouldn't try", it
makes a bit more sense, as being clearly just somebody's opinion of the
moment. You were throwing with terms like "recent experience" and "it's
true", which more often than not mean "hoax".

This was my fault for not making myself clear. In theory, you can do
anything in any language that is Turing complete. That's not what I
meant. What I meant was that you need to use a tool that is
appropriate to the task at hand. At the risk of creating a lot of
unrest among the natives on c.l.p.m., I'll offer my opinion that C is
more appropriate to use for writing an operating system than is Perl,
and that Java may be more appropriate for writing a program consisting
of thousands of KLOCS for a point of sale system than Perl.

My recent experience had to do with writing for the Microsoft C++/CLI,
and I will admit that I was dragged kicking and screaming into it, but
I didn't have a choice. My finial impression was that (1) I'm glad
that I don't have to write these kinds of things often -- hopefully
never again, and (2) Microsoft has done a good job with the CLI and I
came away impressed. Yes, it's a lot easier using some of the
Microsoft containers and template classes that to try to do the same
thing with Perl.

CC

 

[Tim Greer]

Being hired to develop in a language and being hired to teach it are
two very different things. When I was teaching (and I haven't taught
regularly since 2004) I was pressed into service for about a dozen
different courses, some of which I started of totally ignorant of. In
some cases, the educational administration cares more about having a
warm body in the classroom than ... well, I don't know what.


Like most other people, I guess, I have specialized, and the three
areas that I am real good at are server-side web scripting, database
stuff, and data transformation. Outside of that I'm pretty ignorant.
The fact that I know very little about other areas (e.g., threads,
number crunching, sys admin) doesn't meant that I lack proficiency in
everything.

I don't mind admitting ignorance. A recognition of ignorance is, after
all, the first step toward curing it. And ignorance can be cured,
unlike stupidity, which can't.

CC

That is a totally fair response to my inquiry, but I reiterate that it's
difficult to make such determinations if you aren't sure yourself. If
you are more proficient at teaching VB, you will certainly observe more
progress in that language. I definitely didn't mean to insinuate that
you were lacking in any other area. I suppose I read into your
observation as a claim as the norm, but I suppose it was just the norm
in your experience (it might be prudent to provide some detail about
why that could have been, however). And, trust me, I'm certain anyone
I taught would be far less proficient in VB than Perl, simply because I
don't like VB, I don't enjoy it and I have no reason to use it (I've
not touched it in 10 or so years, as no jobs have required it).

 

[Dr.Ruud]

Java may be more appropriate for writing a program consisting
of thousands of KLOCS for a point of sale system than Perl.

I would rather have one made in Perl. My personal experience is that for
the same presented functionality, in Perl one needs about 5% of the
number of new lines of Java.

 

[RedGrittyBrick]

I would rather have one made in Perl. My personal experience is that for
the same presented functionality, in Perl one needs about 5% of the
number of new lines of Java.

That's interesting,

What was the user interface? character-mode or GUI? desktop application
or server based HTML? AJAX? - something else?

Are you comparing Java's Swing vs Tk/Perl?


P.S. This is a genuine question, please don't mistake it for something else.

 

[Dr.Ruud]

Dr.Ruud:

That's interesting,
What was the user interface? character-mode or GUI? desktop application
or server based HTML? AJAX? - something else?

Straightforward webbased user interface, templates, some jQuery for
DHTML and AJAX. Fully useable without a mouse too, commandline widget on
every page for powerusers.

Are you comparing Java's Swing vs Tk/Perl?

No.

 

[sln]

Please stop talking to trolls.

Ben

Well Ben, I will stop talking to your crack induced responses
when I see them, and remind you that your retardation knowns no
bounds.

How bout that jackoff?

-sln

 

[Cliff MacGillivray]

TJM> If you knew anything about usenet you would know that mentioning
TJM> your line of business in a .sig is perfectly acceptable.

best to ignore this troll (as with all trolls). he has stalked me on irc
as well. not sure why i am his target but he also defended moronzilla
too which says a lot.


it is stalking by this troll. he will deny it.

as for my being unemployed, one of my businesses is helping others get
employed. kind of ironic for the troll to point at that. i am gainfully
employed by myself and have been for many successful years.

Well, a little bird tells me that you got shitcanned from
Athena for gross incompetence. There may have been some personal
hygiene issues too. The source did not want to reveal too much lest he
be identifiable by way of the information given.
The question remains how you can legitimately claim to be a
successful recruiter for programmers when you yourself
have such mixed employment results yourself.
You see, if you want to go spamming your sham
employment service you need to be able to defend it
against such legitimate criticism.

 

[Uri Guttman]

CM> Well, a little bird tells me that you got shitcanned from
CM> Athena for gross incompetence. There may have been some personal

amusing. i wouldn't have wanted to stay there. i finished up my contract
there and we mutually agreed to not continue. no firing ever
happened. you don't know athena at all. nor do you know their codebase
and development culture. and you also don't know perl. seems like there
is a lot you don't know.

CM> The question remains how you can legitimately claim to be a
CM> successful recruiter for programmers when you yourself have such
CM> mixed employment results yourself. You see, if you want to go
CM> spamming your sham employment service you need to be able to
CM> defend it against such legitimate criticism.

like you really want a perl job and care? you are just a stalker who has
no perl skills. go find moronzilla and form a cult of 2 member. have
fun!

as for perlhunter, it is doing just fine. not much you can find out
about the actual business so you have to lie. now go away and crawl back
under your rock. you have been banned from all the irc channels and if
usenet could do it, it would ban you too. but everyone else will
killfile you and you will be blathering into the ether with no one to
listen. the worst punishment for you is being you.

as to why you choose to stalk me, i couldn't care less. the alaskan
electrician didn't scare me and you are about as annoying as a speck of
dust. please keep doing this and make it the focus of your life. i will
enjoy seeing you go madder just going after me. stalking is a
sickness. go see a doctor or many doctors.

uri

 

[Chris Davies]

Your adjectively offensive. You are involved in hiring people ?
I don't think so pal. To troll this group or any group for advice,
in that regard, shows your stripes.

I don't regard myself as a troll. I stand by my posting history, helping
people out on various newsgroups (including this one until a year or
so ago). You may, of course, have your opinion about someone you've
never met or bothered to research.

Tell me. What is the average length of employment for programmers,
any country? Explain the definition of full-time and benifits.
PHP and Ruby won't do, but they would be very nice, what; 'adjuncts'?

I wasn't trying to recruit, so my questions were deliberately vague. I
haven't provided company details or any package benefits that might be
available. I haven't even given clear details of the type of work that
might be required.

Your an abomination who doesen't know its ass from its elbow, has no
street cread and a total whack-off, period !!

It's a shame you have to treat a courteous question (and its subsequent
helpful replies) with such offensive language.

I stand by my questions, the relevance of the posting to clpm, and the
willingless of regulars to help me.

Chris

 

[Cliff MacGillivray]

CM> Well, a little bird tells me that you got shitcanned from
CM> Athena for gross incompetence. There may have been some personal

amusing. i wouldn't have wanted to stay there.

"I wouldn't have wanted those grapes anyway, I am sure they were sour."
ha ha ha ha. Pathetic.

i finished up my contract
there and we mutually agreed to not continue. no firing ever
happened. you don't know athena at all. nor do you know their codebase
and development culture.

Sure I do. They need people that work, not people that sit around all
day stuffing their faces.

and you also don't know perl. seems like there

is a lot you don't know.

Keep fooling yourself asshat. Keep fooling yourself...

like you really want a perl job and care? you are just a stalker who has
no perl skills. go find moronzilla and form a cult of 2 member. have
fun!

A fat worthless piece of shit like you has more than two enemies.

as for perlhunter, it is doing just fine. not much you can find out
about the actual business so you have to lie.

Yes, clearly perhunter is doing so well you don't need to have a
professional looking webpage. Or even one that looks like it wasn't
designed as an elementary school class project.