Perl DBI Module: SQL query where there is space in field name

[Peter J. Holzer]

"l) I'd prefer plain text markup of the sort used by GrutaTxt or
ASCIIDOC but simplified. That way I could embed tables that work well
in plain-text newsreaders but would also look pretty in any
newsreader that supported that format." - RGB

"That would be nice, but wouldn't you have the same battle on your hands
that those pushing html currently do?" - szr [...]
This posting is written in a form compatible with Grutatxt. In theory a
newreader could render it with the headings in various fonts and sizes,
with the bullet lists shown with proper bullet characters and with the
tables displayed in some more pleasing form..

If it recognizes the page as Grutatxt. How would it do that? The
mime-confoming way would be to use format=grutatext similar to
format=flowed.

Is there any anti-HTML-in-newsgroups reader out there who finds the
formatting and markup of this posting really objectionable?

I find the quoting objectionable. It's difficult to see that the two
quotes are quotes from previous messages in the same thread.

hp

 

[RedGrittyBrick]

"l) I'd prefer plain text markup of the sort used by GrutaTxt or
ASCIIDOC but simplified. That way I could embed tables that work well
in plain-text newsreaders but would also look pretty in any
newsreader that supported that format." - RGB

"That would be nice, but wouldn't you have the same battle on your hands
that those pushing html currently do?" - szr [...]
This posting is written in a form compatible with Grutatxt. In theory a
newreader could render it with the headings in various fonts and sizes,
with the bullet lists shown with proper bullet characters and with the
tables displayed in some more pleasing form..

If it recognizes the page as Grutatxt. How would it do that?

I don't know, maybe using a header 'Content-type = text/structured'?

Don't forget many (most?) newsreaders already recognise *asterisks*
/obliques/ and _underscores_ without requiring any special indicators.
Ditto for lines starting with ">". Is there any *technical* reason they
shouldn't look out for other markup too?

The
mime-confoming way would be to use format=grutatext similar to
format=flowed.
OK.


I find the quoting objectionable. It's difficult to see that the two
quotes are quotes from previous messages in the same thread.

True. That would need addressing.

I did wonder if I should have done it thus:

Fred said:
"blah blah
blah blah"

Mary retorted:
"pardon?"

But I guess a usenet-structured text format would probably retain the
existing quoting conventions.

Rather than thinking of a formal format maybe it would be best to think
off somehow adding to the *asterisk* /oblique/ _underscore_ set of
loosely respected conventions.

It's not like I have some well thought out proposal here, this is just
thinking out aloud

 

[Sir Robin]

And then there are assholes who will waste tons of bandwidth arguing
that they are wasting bandwidth! Brilliant argument there bud.

I'm glad that you agree.

And don't

forget those who repeat every least thing that the previous post had and
add one line saying "I agree".
Here's a wonderful reason - because it bothers you.

Say, you can't really read, can you? No, *I* can ignore it quite well but it
would indeed be a wonderful reason. My reason is that:

1. It bothers *others*.
2. No benefit whatsoever.

So GTFY.

Ah... no. (If you wish to blurt out your opinion then I will blurt out
mine).

Indeed - two times per one message even \o/

I see - the "do it my way or you're a troll" opinion...

Yes, that is indeed my opinion on this case of the meaning for "my way".

Great. Nobody's asking you to use it.
And, of course, you're so damn social that you feel the need to tell
people how to do things and then get upset and stamp your feet if they
disagree.

Nope, not the people - so far you are the first one I've had to argue on this
topic... And aren't you so damn proud of it.

Yeah I thought it was beeing real good.
Man it pisses you off so that people don't puss out and do whatever you
damn eh?

Not really... But you do like to think that way if anyone dares to say that
you are an ignorant prick with bad behaviour, don't you?

--
***/--- Sir Robin (aka Jani Saksa) Bi-Sex and proud of it! ---\***
**/ email: (e-mail address removed)-SPAM.org, <*> Reg. Linux user #290577 \**
*| Me, Drugs, DooM, Photos, Writings... http://soul.fiveam.org/robsku |*
**\--- GSM/SMS: +358 44 927 3992 ---/**
"Jokainen linkki, jonka päätteenä on ".org", on kelvoton tiedonlähde."
- Nikolas Mäki

 

[Sir Robin]

]
And there is no reason whatsoever why a newsreader should need to be
able to handle HTML

What reason is there not to, to be honest? It is one thing not to like
it, and it is completely another whether a reader should support it.

I have no reason to be dishonest about this.

Since many other kinds of groups (which are usually non-technical) have
a following that don't look so negatively on the use of HTML posting, it
is perfectly reasonable for a reader to either support HTML or at least
be able to parse multipart posts and pull the desired section.

I haven't seen such groups... I wouldn't like a group where people post in
HTML since my reader (Agent 2.0) does not render HTML and I would need to
double click the attachment box to open each message in web browser.

But if the rules of the group say that posting HTML is cool then who am I to
say anything? Heck, they can say that posting in DocBook format is OK if they
want to but I really would not see that as an argument for newsreaders top be
able to format that.

--
***/--- Sir Robin (aka Jani Saksa) Bi-Sex and proud of it! ---\***
**/ email: (e-mail address removed)-SPAM.org, <*> Reg. Linux user #290577 \**
*| Me, Drugs, DooM, Photos, Writings... http://soul.fiveam.org/robsku |*
**\--- GSM/SMS: +358 44 927 3992 ---/**
"Kun nuorille opetetaan, että kannabis on yhtä vaarallista kuin heroiini,
niin tokihan he oppivat, että heroiini on yhtä vaaratonta kuin kannabis."

 

[Sir Robin]

It annoys people who use antiquated news reading software who cannot
handle it. I'm sure people still using lynx to browse the web are
annoyed with those things called images and the like..

Why do you think so? I use Links (similiar to lynx but way more advanced) and
I don't expect to see the full content of pages - I don't bitch about it
because I know that I'm using a browser designed for limited capability
environment and thus I need to accept that not everything will be shown as it
was meant to.

Your posts to newsgroups then again are totally different from hypertext web
pages. They are just text messages with no benefit from beeing formatted with
hypertext markup language.

You are an ignorant fool about this. I would not bitch about you using HTML
where it was designed to be used - HTML allows using embedded objects that
browsers are not required to understand (java, flash, etc...) and need a
plugin but it's acceptable and defined in HTML that you can embed objects not
described in the language so I would not bitch to you about that either. You
are so stubborn on this subject that you don't seem to have a slightest glue
of the real reason why there are people who are bitching at you about this.

Strawman! It leads some people to bitch and complain that it's bad
behavior. You can't make everybody happy. Haven't you heard?

You could try - what would you lose if you did?

There's that "beeing" again. A typo? I think not...

I apologize for any language problems I might have. As you can guess, english
is not my native language but I am trying to write it with minimal amount of
errors.

--
***/--- Sir Robin (aka Jani Saksa) Bi-Sex and proud of it! ---\***
**/ email: (e-mail address removed)-SPAM.org, <*> Reg. Linux user #290577 \**
*| Me, Drugs, DooM, Photos, Writings... http://soul.fiveam.org/robsku |*
**\--- GSM/SMS: +358 44 927 3992 ---/**
"Kun nuorille opetetaan, että kannabis on yhtä vaarallista kuin heroiini,
niin tokihan he oppivat, että heroiini on yhtä vaaratonta kuin kannabis."

 

[szr]

]
And there is no reason whatsoever why a newsreader should need to be
able to handle HTML

What reason is there not to, to be honest? It is one thing not to
like it, and it is completely another whether a reader should
support it.

I have no reason to be dishonest about this.

I wasn't implying that. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

I haven't seen such groups... I wouldn't like a group where people
post in HTML since my reader (Agent 2.0) does not render HTML and I
would need to double click the attachment box to open each message in
web browser.

Or your reader could be configured to only view the text/plain portion


I do agree with you though.

 

[Peter J. Holzer]

"l) I'd prefer plain text markup of the sort used by GrutaTxt or
ASCIIDOC but simplified. That way I could embed tables that work well
in plain-text newsreaders but would also look pretty in any
newsreader that supported that format." - RGB

"That would be nice, but wouldn't you have the same battle on your hands
that those pushing html currently do?" - szr [...]
This posting is written in a form compatible with Grutatxt. In theory a
newreader could render it with the headings in various fonts and sizes,
with the bullet lists shown with proper bullet characters and with the
tables displayed in some more pleasing form..

If it recognizes the page as Grutatxt. How would it do that?

I don't know, maybe using a header 'Content-type = text/structured'?

That would probably cause a problem with many newsreaders: They don't
know what text/structured is (that's a very bad name, btw - far too
unspecific) and how it should be displayed. Some may display it as
text/plain, but others will complain or resort to external filters.

Don't forget many (most?) newsreaders already recognise *asterisks*
/obliques/ and _underscores_ without requiring any special indicators.
Ditto for lines starting with ">".

Most newsreaders take great care to render these in a way which doesn't
change the content (i.e., they may render anything between the asterisks
in bold, but they don't remove the asterisks). This is because they
cannot know that these characters are intended as markup - especially in
programming language newsgroups "strange characters" often carry
meaning. Still, even though they are quite conservative, and there is
only a very limited number of markup elements, it does happen that they
render something in a misleading manner.

Is there any *technical* reason they shouldn't look out for other
markup too?

Every additional markup element which is used only by convention and not
according to some specified format increases the risk that the reader
won't see what the author intended.

I have nothing against grutatext, asciidoc, etc. if they are properly
labeled. But if newsreaders A treats text/plain as grutatext and
newsreader B treats it as asciidoc, then I fear that the result won't be
pretty.

It's not like I have some well thought out proposal here, this is just
thinking out aloud

Ditto.

hp

 

[Martijn Lievaart]

What you both are demonstrating is the core constant problem on Usenet:
failing to communicate; failing to even attempt to understand the other
person's point of view. I see people like you respond to people like
DeFaria (people who you obviously consider to be inferior) and display a
complete inability to see past your own views, and thus you have a never
ending fight between the academia types and the more every day types.

FWIW,

I actually tried to communicate with DeFaria. Being on usenet for about
20 years I think of myself as kind of a veteran and I hope I learned some
communication skills in the meantime, especially on usenet.

But communication with DeFaria is impossible.

This group should be gentler with newbies, better at assuming someone
didn't exactly mean what they said. And as communication on usenet and
communication about programming languages are both tricky, they should
learn the newbie how to communicate.

And everyone should learn for themselves. How do my preconceptions stand
in the way of effective communication. Are we turning into an inbred
group?

But you picked the complete wrong example. DeFaria is hopeless. Whatever
communication deficiency this group has, DeFaria has it ten times over.
Don't waste any time on him. Don't use him as an example.

M4

 

[Waylen Gumbal]

FWIW,

I actually tried to communicate with DeFaria. Being on usenet for
about 20 years I think of myself as kind of a veteran and I hope I
learned some communication skills in the meantime, especially on
usenet.

But communication with DeFaria is impossible.

This group should be gentler with newbies, better at assuming someone
didn't exactly mean what they said. And as communication on usenet and
communication about programming languages are both tricky, they should
learn the newbie how to communicate.

And everyone should learn for themselves. How do my preconceptions
stand in the way of effective communication. Are we turning into an
inbred group?

But you picked the complete wrong example. DeFaria is hopeless.
Whatever communication deficiency this group has, DeFaria has it ten
times over. Don't waste any time on him. Don't use him as an example.

I didn't realize it was so extensive with him. I meant my point in a
more generalist way, and having gone to google groups and reading up on
past threads, it seems the initial catalyst was still a communication
gap, on both sides.

That said, I understand all the frustrations with him and similar
people, and I understand your points. Thank you for pointing where I was
in error.

-wg